[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[juggernaut1]

i sure as hell dont mind and im sure "the keeper" will still be smiling

I'm pretty sure Garrett is still smiling too

[Adriano]

also, no way SSE were using teh NAWS. They just don't need it for one thing. they already have anti-lag and a great big turbo on there. if they need more power they just up the boost. I don't think they'd be interested in nos anyway as there is a big trade off in that you have to carry the bottle, lines etc round the whole track but only use it for a quick blast down the straight. they are very weight conscious to the point they don't have airjacks on the car, instead they use clever little pit jacks that go under each wheel (which cyber saw last year and copied for this year!). very clever.

if that's not enough I spoke to the cars and personally looked over the car (amazing car) and there's no nos on it. they can't run it in the US comps and can't run it in aus either so why would they?

the car definitely had more to give but they actually suffered a gearbox problem in the final session which robbed them of the chance to go for a quicker time.

take nothing away from cyber though. those guys are amazing and tarzan is one hell of a pilot.

REALLY, Do they talk back?

[juggernaut1]

REALLY, Do they talk back?

He's the "Horse (power) Whisperer".

[Lithium]

This thread is now full of useless haters... seriously STFU if you dont like it go buy a Garret like every other "puppet"... i sure as hell dont mind and im sure "the keeper" will still be smiling

From start till now I've been wanting to see good results from the things, I was very seriously looking into heading towards an EFR for my own car but am just calling it like I am seeing it and hoping someone will counter it.

Pretty sure these are the results I've come across, in summary:

EFR6258 - 2 different dyno results (one is a pair on a GTR, other is on a 4cyl), one failure

EFR6758 - 2 different dyno results

EFR7670 - 1 dyno result, 1 failure

EFR8374 - 2 dyno results

EFR9180 - 2 dyno results, 1 failure

And huge delays, all around. All those cases can be verified with some time and cunning use of Google, I've heard people refer inspecifically to other failures or cases where they have been used but not added them to the count due to it being very inspecific. By stating what I've seen, as I've seen them... good or bad - I'm not a hater, it is what it is. If there were heaps of awesome results, I'd be raving about the awesome and be getting called a fanboi.

[wolverine]

^^hater

(we need a poll with two choices, apparently you can't sit in the middle)

[GTScotT]

Theres nothing stoping a company producing their own parts and using it on their own cars in race events is there? Like no legalities similar to whats stopping production of these things?

I am of the firm opinion that BW just needs to get their own 'on road' test team happening and thrash the guts out of the things day in day out.

I fully take on board what The Keeper has noted regarding using race teams, HOWEVER truly believe it would be better done themselves. I mean, Nissan didnt build an R35 then give it to Gibson motorsport to report back on.. They built it, beat the porsche, then gave it to Gibson (it was red) who later had to give it to the HOMOSEXUAL ADR lot who crushed it (as with all first test models imported from overseas are - yes they crush the first R35 but not the first faggotdore).

Now go tell BW to test it themselves then give it to an aussie so we can also try it out and crush it when were done, F**K.

/end rant/

[Beer Baron]

OK I am sure there was a post elsewhere which made it seem like the R32 had Garretts on it - are there any dyno results for it? Does the owner of it have any thoughts he can add on the change from the Garrett to EFR equivalents?

sorry, wrong R32. the R32 I supplied the 6258s for is not the Advan/Hi-Octane R32 (which does still have 2860 -5s on but is going to an EFR set-up soon), it's another car. it's the BPG R32 owned by John Bright. no graphs yet but he might give me some I can post soon.

[Beer Baron]

REALLY, Do they talk back?

only when no one else is around to hear them....

[Beer Baron]

Theres nothing stoping a company producing their own parts and using it on their own cars in race events is there? Like no legalities similar to whats stopping production of these things?

I am of the firm opinion that BW just needs to get their own 'on road' test team happening and thrash the guts out of the things day in day out.

I fully take on board what The Keeper has noted regarding using race teams, HOWEVER truly believe it would be better done themselves. I mean, Nissan didnt build an R35 then give it to Gibson motorsport to report back on.. They built it, beat the porsche, then gave it to Gibson (it was red) who later had to give it to the HOMOSEXUAL ADR lot who crushed it (as with all first test models imported from overseas are - yes they crush the first R35 but not the first faggotdore).

Now go tell BW to test it themselves then give it to an aussie so we can also try it out and crush it when were done, F**K.

/end rant/

I think they are doing both. I know BW is testing them internally and also getting them out there. in the end they need feedback from users to make sure they have got it right. I'm glad they do as that's how we learn how they perform in the real world from people not employed by the company making them.

[Beer Baron]

From start till now I've been wanting to see good results from the things, I was very seriously looking into heading towards an EFR for my own car but am just calling it like I am seeing it and hoping someone will counter it.

Pretty sure these are the results I've come across, in summary:

EFR6258 - 2 different dyno results (one is a pair on a GTR, other is on a 4cyl), one failure

EFR6758 - 2 different dyno results

EFR7670 - 1 dyno result, 1 failure

EFR8374 - 2 dyno results

EFR9180 - 2 dyno results, 1 failure

And huge delays, all around. All those cases can be verified with some time and cunning use of Google, I've heard people refer inspecifically to other failures or cases where they have been used but not added them to the count due to it being very inspecific. By stating what I've seen, as I've seen them... good or bad - I'm not a hater, it is what it is. If there were heaps of awesome results, I'd be raving about the awesome and be getting called a fanboi.

yeah I wish I could tell you something good but as it is right now my advice is just sit back and wait a bit more (i know that's been said before) and just see how it shakes out. things are moving along and the results will come.

[bigmikespec]

I dont recall anybody calling the product crap. If they get it sorted i have no doubt it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Particularly after speaking to people who have had limited experience with it.

Whats out there may be prototypes to you but these turbos were released at sema 8 months ago. Key word being "released" albeit prematurely as it turns out.

I've had my say on it. Lets wait and see if and when they get it on the pile.

It is pretty funny really as in the last 2 years I have been involved in a very very large German OEM manufacturer (bigger than BW) that had pre-released a "product" that was really still a prototype. And man was that not the biggest cluster for our company! Product failures, and failure to supply... then in the end they would not supply because they knew the product was so bad.

Anyway, as I understand it these turbochargers were designed with special care as far as turbine and compressor wheel matching and turbine housing sizes. Is there still a necessity for a surge ported compressor housing? Considering it does take a bit of efficiency away at the top end. Or was the decision to port the housing done as a precaution?

[Beer Baron]

ok, here's something that should make some people happy.

RESULTS!

This is a graph for a R32 GTR running twin 6258s on twin full race manifolds. It's a 100% circuit car and competes in a whole range of stuff. it's been developed over a number of years and is a pretty good package. Built 2.6L RB26, hollinger sequential, big brakes etc, running a link ECU on E85 and tuned here in Sydney. It originally had garret 2860 -5s and made good power. with a move to more circuit stuff (used to do some tarmac stuff if memory serves me) and the quest for more power some 2860 -10s went on. it made a bit more power but the lag wasn't great and it suffered the usual turbo shuffle/surge problems at low RPM/high TPS% stuff (ie coming out of slow corners on the track with the throttle nailed). as a result it wasn't nearly as sharp coming out of corners as it was on the -5s.

The owner was about to go back to -5s for Superlap but asked me what I thought about these new 6258s. We had a look and decided they were worth a shot. There were some dramas with fitting etc (never been fitted to a 32 before) but once fitted and sorted the results were good. For reliability sake (given the current issues with wheels etc) boost was pegged at ~20psi and for superlap down to 18psi for safety but it made more power everywhere, with less boost. Once the wick is wound up to 25psi+ they should really hum nicely. Please take the outright numbers with a grain of salt. this car with the -10s made over 400kw on another DD dyno but this is where it was initially run so it was back on the same dyno for tuning and this makes the comparison valid.

enjoy the graph which was kindly provided by the cars owner, John.

[simpletool]

I'm just hoping for a 7670 next year. As long as they have it sorted by then I'll be happy. No need for twin scroll since it is RB25 - but it would be nice to have the option.

First up I think EFR should suspend taking orders until they can be filled promptly.

That looks like 22kph lower onset of boost - is this about 800rpm? (4000rpm vs 4800rpm?)

Either way it's a shedload - is the response even better than -5 ?

Edited August 10, 2011 by simpletool

[Beer Baron]

looking at the graph it's pretty cool to see it hits 23psi at 95km/h vs 23psi at 125km/h with the -10s!

at 112km/h (around 4,000tpm I think) it makes nearly double the power! from 210hp to 400hp!

John said the car felt amazing to drive. just hauls out of corners now. I watched him at a few places at it certainly was quick in a straight line too.

it's now making over 400kw atw even on this fairly conservative dyno. another measure of it's performance is the fact John did a 1:40 flat at superlap despite no aero at all and no time to set-up the car etc before hand. just a basic tune on 18psi with the new turbos.

Pretty good result I think.

[Sub Boy32]

That's a good looking result, Response much earlier than the -10's and made more power.

They do look to be the go on an RB26 looking for more power than the -5's.....I would love to see a set on a RB30!

Wouldn't mind seeing a back to back of these and the 8374 on the same car!

[Lithium]

Awesome, thanks for sharing - now we're getting somewhere

Are both of those plots on the same fuel?

[Beer Baron]

yep both plots on same fuel, same tuner, same engine, same cams, same car etc and in similar weather and same altitude. as far as I know NOTHING was changed except the turbos. even has the same exhaust (new dumps obviously), same intercooler etc.

they do pretty much exactly what I had hoped. better than -10 power with better than -5 response (well certainly equal to -5). I'm really keen to see them on more boost.

[bigmikespec]

yep both plots on same fuel, same tuner, same engine, same cams, same car etc and in similar weather and same altitude. as far as I know NOTHING was changed except the turbos. even has the same exhaust (new dumps obviously), same intercooler etc.

they do pretty much exactly what I had hoped. better than -10 power with better than -5 response (well certainly equal to -5). I'm really keen to see them on more boost.

Why the reason for twins over a single i.e. equally sized EFR single to achieve power target? As you said would be a big headache to fit it all.

[TheKeeper]

yep both plots on same fuel, same tuner, same engine, same cams, same car etc and in similar weather and same altitude. as far as I know NOTHING was changed except the turbos. even has the same exhaust (new dumps obviously), same intercooler etc.

they do pretty much exactly what I had hoped. better than -10 power with better than -5 response (well certainly equal to -5). I'm really keen to see them on more boost.

Exactly what we found with these turbos, and again ZERO surge/shuffle.

[bigmikespec]

Exactly what we found with these turbos, and again ZERO surge/shuffle.

Before I quote myself again in a single turbo application is there a need for the surge ported compressor housing or was it a precaution?