[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[SimonR32]

Nice looking engine bay, guess all that time waiting gives you time to work on it

[GTScotT]

Lol Harsh.

Is very nice though!

[Lithium]

Dyno result from an EVO on E85 with a single scroll internally gated EFR8374:

Apparently ~620whp on that particular dyno makes a late model EVO good for 9.8 @ 143mph, given they gave the thing a sh1ttonne of boost to make that power I'm not so blown away by the power (which is still well respectable) but the power delivery I think is pretty impressive.

Not that the video is the most imformative, you can tell it starts pulling quite hard quite early within its relative powerband:

[Legionnaire]

42psi with 9.0 comp ratio! That's insanity. And nice to see an evo engine holds torque like that. All previous dyno printouts were showing pretty steep fall of the torque curve in the upper rpm range. Or is it a 4B11 on this dyno sheet?

With that mentioned, I would not say the result is all that impressive. 42 psi is what, 3.85 pressue ratio? As per comp map, BW 83mm compressor flows ~74lb of air max, that should give roughly 700-720hp on petrol and some more on E85. So either evo loses ridiculous amount of power through the tranny, or something is wrong. Or compressor map is a bit too optimistic...

[Lithium]

They had actually gone from a GT4088R to the EFR8374, and changed from 280deg cams to 272deg - which is probably on the small side for an EVO making that kind of power... they were trying to spread the torque out a bit, which looks like it has worked. Apparently that particular dyno reads really low, I'm not 100% sure what you'd expect from 630whp/470wkw though I'd have thought 143mph doesn't suggest a harsh dyno.

Its definitely a 4G63, I've seen plenty of 4Gs rev that hard or harder - its how early it starts as well which is quite impressive. I'd not call that power really any more impressive than what a GT3582R would do given everything its got.

[Legionnaire]

So was it a 4B11 or 4G63? They certainly made torque curve hold with those cams.

Compared to this:

BTW, I'm honestly not into 1/4 mile, is 143mph high or low for a 4wd 470kw car?

Edit: Sorry man, didn't see the second part of your post there. 4G, hmm.. I would have thought it was a 4B11 head and port geometry that resulted in that kind of torque.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Legionnaire

[badhairdave]

They had actually gone from a GT4088R to the EFR8374, and changed from 280deg cams to 272deg - which is probably on the small side for an EVO making that kind of power... they were trying to spread the torque out a bit, which looks like it has worked. Apparently that particular dyno reads really low, I'm not 100% sure what you'd expect from 630whp/470wkw though I'd have thought 143mph doesn't suggest a harsh dyno.

Its definitely a 4G63, I've seen plenty of 4Gs rev that hard or harder - its how early it starts as well which is quite impressive. I'd not call that power really any more impressive than what a GT3582R would do given everything its got.

Low for a US dyno, inline with local results for us though as it's a Mustang and not dynojet.

For the uninformed, dynojets will typically give a higher peak power with a later peak torque when compared to a mustang or dyno dynamics read out.

[Lithium]

They are claiming it reads low even for a Mustang, hence me using the trap speeds to get an indicator of real world power. How much power would you expect a full weight EVO to need to go 143mph in the 1/4?

[Lithium]

Edit: Sorry man, didn't see the second part of your post there. 4G, hmm.. I would have thought it was a 4B11 head and port geometry that resulted in that kind of torque.

Have you looked at many 4G63 results? That particular dyno plot for the SSE is pretty average looking power delivery, for some reason.

BTW, speaking of EVOs and EFR turbos - finally a twin scroll EFR7670 result, 2.3litre stroker EVO running 30psi on E85:

I LIKE!!!

[Legionnaire]

Have you looked at many 4G63 results? That particular dyno plot for the SSE is pretty average looking power delivery, for some reason.

It does look average.

I haven't seen a whole lot of them, but many of those I've seen had steep torque drop after ~5000 rpm. IDK why is that so, maybe cams are not hot enough, or something else is amiss, but lots of 4G63's do it.

Even on the graph you've posted. Torque goes down by 200lb/ft after 5000 rpm.

But not a bad result overall. 640hp (it's a flywheel figure i should think?) on E85, and all in by 4000. With 98RON we can expect slightly better response and 80-100hp less power. Would make a potent turbo for an RB25. GT30 response with almost GT35 power - nice!

Edited September 7, 2011 by Legionnaire

[Lithium]

It does look average.

I haven't seen a whole lot of them, but many of those I've seen had steep torque drop after ~5000 rpm. IDK why is that so, maybe cams are not hot enough, or something else is amiss, but lots of 4G63's do it.

Even on the graph you've posted. Torque goes down by 200lb/ft after 5000 rpm.

But not a bad result overall. 640hp (it's a flywheel figure i should think?) on E85, and all in by 4000. With 98RON we can expect slightly better response and 80-100hp less power. Would make a potent turbo for an RB25. GT30 response with almost GT35 power - nice!

Nah power at the hubs, TCF field is used if flywheel power is going to be estimated... that value is 1.00 is this instance so subject to transmission losses. This car it's comfortably making over 700hp at the crank going by that dyno plot, it would be respectable power for a 35R on E85 on a hub dyno... it's a really good result imho

[Legionnaire]

Well, looks like I know nothing about dynapack dynos. If it's power at HUBS, it's better than really good. It's excellent. Awesome. I wouldn't expect so much power at only 30 psi from 76mm compressor, even on E85.

But now things start looking odd. 640 hub hp with 7670 at 30 psi, but only 620whp from 8374 at 42psi? Something is wrong here...

Oh, and do EVOs really have 6.4 final drive ratio?

[Lithium]

Whatever gear they ran it in it's obviously not 1:1, not sure if or how much it would effect the reading. The 8374 result is likely to be closer to 700hub hp or so

[SimonR32]

Have you looked at many 4G63 results? That particular dyno plot for the SSE is pretty average looking power delivery, for some reason.

BTW, speaking of EVOs and EFR turbos - finally a twin scroll EFR7670 result, 2.3litre stroker EVO running 30psi on E85:

I LIKE!!!

Now we are talking... That looks very impressive

[Legionnaire]

700- hub hp is a pretty long way from 620 whp, I'm not sure if that much power is lost in tyres, usually it's closer to 30-40hp?

But we're also not forgetting the fact that 8374 was it its smallest housing, whereas 7670 was in larger TS hsg.

By the way, was that TS housing in 7670 IG or EG?

[Lithium]

Its EG, and I have seen differences of over ten pc between some hub and roller dynos but it's all speculation. I am not sure whats up with the 8374 result but I think one way or another it's low. This result however is intense, if it's accurate it's 335kw by 4000rpm which is outright brutal. Need more results to flow through to start finding a trend

[Legionnaire]

Yes, 7670 result is outstanding. As for the comparison of the two, we're talking the same thing as 1.06 GT(X)30 vs. .63 GT(X)35 - largest available housing for smaller and smallest for bigger turbo, it may contribute to less than impressive result of the 8374. But I agree, we need to wait for some more results to draw any useful conclusion.

Particularly interested in their TS IWG results. Do you happen to know if BW resolved issues with manufacturing of those?

[Lithium]

I think it was all ts, not just the ig ones - the fact this result had emerged has to be a good sign

[Sub Boy32]

I think it was all ts, not just the ig ones - the fact this result had emerged has to be a good sign

They must be getting them out now then.....I still haven't heard anything yet

[Lithium]

The tuner of the car with the EFR7670 posted above has taken the time to share thoughts and also address people's "Dyno generosity" related posts which naturally come up with this kind of result, so here go the facts:

_This_ AWD Dynapack 6000 consistently reads 9% higher than the Mustangs @ GST' date=' Reese and GReddy. I can’t speak for other Mustang dynos. On two cars it read 2% lower than the TT AWD Dynojet. There is one AWD Dynapack in So Cal that reads a good 6-7% higher than mine. The other Dynapack is an older 2000+4000 so maybe that has something to do with the difference and myth.

Charts:

Running the car at different boost levels. Robi was looking for something in the 500 whp range to keep the car driveable on a road course. Scot (tuner) could not get the car to run below 18 psi so 524 is the lowest hp there can be.

[img']http://roadraceengineering.com/dynapack/dynos/DenkersEVO_BorgWarner-Dyno/800/Robi%20Denkers%20Red%20RS.jpg[/img]

Up around 30 psi and with E-85, there was a little ignition breakup. This car has a Sparktech COP setup which is one of the only COP kits we see that is trouble free. But whit this WHP and E-85 it could use an ignition amplifier box. The red pull at 28 psi peak and ~600 whp is the highest clean pull. The green pull is the most that the ignition could take.

The numbers in the green and yellow boxes are the boost, torque or hp wherever the markers are set at. On this set of runs they are set on the highest and lowest peaks.

Full chart showing the weather station info. This is the red clean run. We are in a bit of a heat wave here in So Cal (101 daytime at the shop), it was still pretty warm in the dyno room. :

Looks like the SAE correction hit 5.6%

Same charts as above with weather correction set @ NONE:

For the guys that know how to use a DYnapack, here is the F11 setup. No crazy settle time, 11 second run.

I don’t know all the details of his old setup other than it didn’t suck. It only looks sad when compared to this turbo/motor combo. Red and green this Borg Warner turbo, orange and teal color runs his old setup.:

For a currency conversion to your favorite dyno… his clean 600whp run compared to dead stock untooned 2011 X MR (red and blue) and a 2010 X GSR (red and green)

Dyno War all you want. This turbo/manifold/motor setup rocks :-P I have a 2.4 with a 30R on E-85 on my own track EVO 8 and a 2.5 with a 30R customer car and they can _almost_ match the spool of this setup. But they need to run way more boost and have nowhere near the top end of this kit.

High res images:

http://roadraceengineering.com/dynapack/dynos/DenkersEVO_BorgWarner-Dyno/

Mike W