[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[Lithium]

Woot, this should be very interesting. Who is the tuner, NZEFI? Place bets now

[SimonR32]

Woot, this should be very interesting. Who is the tuner, NZEFI? Place bets now

$5 on a bent shaft!

[GTScotT]

$5 on a bent shaft!

So harsh! That is insult to injury after waiting so long to get it and watching the failures filter through.

I raise you $10....

honestly I am actually very excited to see the TSIW results and definitely hope the shaft does not bend!

[bri73y]

Well.............

The Mythical White Elephant arrived today!! 9.5mths, It's been longer than making babies!

Serial number #13.....Hope it's lucky for me!

Thanks again to the guys at Full-Race (Geoff,Raffi,Brett,Aaron) for putting up with my constant emails, Just got to wait for the manifold to be finished, and some pipework to be built....Then it's tuning time!

Don't get too excited, it could end up like this yet.......

or this.....

possibly even this.....

or maybe even scatter some bits over your workshop floor whilst on the dyno.....

Yep, many failures, 4 so far in fact!!

Let's hope you don't end up getting bills like this.....(extract from my mechanic's invoice)

and this is after the initial install some days earlier.

3/08/2011. Fit new turbo. Replace turbo

actuators. Drain & replace fuel with CSR E85.

Refit to dyno. Start tune at wastegate pressure

with new actuators. Increase boost in

increments to 25psi. Turbo failed. Remove car

from dyno. Replace turbo. Fit on dyno & start

tuning @ 18 psi. Turbo failed @ 18 PSI.

(if you're wondering how I was able to replace turbos straight away, well FR actually sent me 2 extras "just in case")

I should've known something was going to go horribly wrong at that stage!! Stupid Me for believing them when they said they've only had a couple of failures to date.......

5/08/2011. Purchase another Turbo from GCG under instruction from BW/FR as 3 of the first 4 sent had failed.

Still waiting to be reimbursed for this turbo........

Remove & replace failed turbo. Refit to dyno. Retune to 24 PSI. Refit bonnet & front bar.

This 5th Turbo lasted approx 8 laps.

Fast forward to November and I have just received my new Turbos from BW/FR, some u-beaut super dooper super secret 2012 models that will just blow away everyone. mmmmm

Well if you call 24psi at 5700rpm super dooper ofcourse.

Bloody hell, looks like another set of EFR turbos are coming off, my car's a circuit car, not a drag car!!

If you want my two bobs worth, think long and hard about putting these on. My costs (I'm embarrassed to say) have blown to over $20k for putting EFR twins on.

BW/FR have done almost zero as a result too, communication has been poor at best and after sales service just shithouse. Apparently BW's only responsibility is to replace the blown turbos under warranty.

How do blown turbos get taken off and replaced, only to fail again, taken off/replaced again, fail again, taken off/replaced again, fail again, taken off/replaced again, for free..?? I've spent almost as much replacing blown turbos as what they were worth to purchase!!

Hardly fair. If they were based in Australia you'd be knocking on their door with a large baseball bat I reckon!

So there you have it, and that's only 1/4 of the story..............(let's not even start on the fact the the manifolds FR supplied didn't fit and needed to be chopped up and modified, at my expense)

This whole EFR BW/FR experience has been by far the worst of my car's life, and a decision I regret everyday.

Don't do it, nothing is worth the pain or expense.....

[zebra]

Ouch dude!

That isnt cool at all...what EFR turbos were they..Id assume a couple of the smaller ones if going twin on a 26.....besides weren't you happy with 500odd kws from the last set up?

[TheKeeper]

I'll take those bets. I want whichever exchange rate is higher on USD or AUD.

Don't worry Chris, the shafts were never the problem, and the wheel issue has been sorted. I haven't seen one failure yet with the new wheel. I'm not saying it definitely won't fail, just the shaft won't be the issue and I have not seen one fail since the correction of the wheel material.

Well played John.

[R31Nismoid]

[wolverine]

EFR straight through turbo technology?

[DCIEVE]

John thanks for sharing. I thought I'd had a few rough runs over the years modifying my shitbox but your leading that race by a long way. I hope bw/fr come to the party on at least the parts debt you've incurred by effectively running the southern hemisphere BW R&D department.

Edited November 17, 2011 by DCIEVE

[Lithium]

Hmm, the stories only get worse

[GTScotT]

This whole EFR BW/FR experience has been by far the worst of my car's life, and a decision I regret everyday.

Don't do it, nothing is worth the pain or expense.....

Meanwhile in the Kando Dynamic thread............................... Please take this lightly

I hope bw/fr come to the party on at least the parts debt you've incurred by effectively running the southern hemisphere BW R&D department.

That's the described 'google method' at play. Roll out your Beta early and let everyone have a 'harmless play' to determine all the real world bugs.

I cant remember on how many pages that has been described as whats been going on but its obviously not sitting too well with people $20,000 out of pocket.

[TheKeeper]

I said I won't guarantee it won't fail. (any turbo can fail) The issues that John had have been completely addressed and fixed. In our tests of the new turbos we have not seen a failure. I can write an entire page about John's situation and everything I did personally to rectify it, but it's not going to change anything...and since I'm pecking at my iPhone right now anymore will have to wait until tomorrow. For now, suffice it to say the turbo in Chris' possession has been triple checked. If it fails I have no answer for you and I'll be on the phone with BW throwing a big fit. Like I said, we've beat on the latest version really hard and no failures. For whatever that is worth:

[Sub Boy32]

Thanks for the heads up John....Sounds like a bit of shit run! I hope the guys from BW get it sorted for you.

I don't have a lot of choices now, I will just have to run with it and hope it's all good.

Fingers crossed mine will be fine with the new wheels as Brett says, At least it's easy for me to unbolt

I must admit I won't be happy if it fails after waiting this long....I will just have to pray to the turbo gods.

NZEFI are tuning it

[wolverine]

Like I said, we've beat on the latest version really hard and no failures. For whatever that is worth:

Was John told that the issues were sorted on his replacement turbos too?

A disclaimer of FWIW, given the failures so far is pretty much like admitting that the end users balls are swinging in the cool breeze.

[bri73y]

I said I won't guarantee it won't fail. (any turbo can fail) The issues that John had have been completely addressed and fixed. In our tests of the new turbos we have not seen a failure. I can write an entire page about John's situation and everything I did personally to rectify it, but it's not going to change anything...and since I'm pecking at my iPhone right now anymore will have to wait until tomorrow. For now, suffice it to say the turbo in Chris' possession has been triple checked. If it fails I have no answer for you and I'll be on the phone with BW throwing a big fit. Like I said, we've beat on the latest version really hard and no failures. For whatever that is worth:

I'd be pretty interested in reading that page you talk about.....

Nothing has been recitified for me other than you sending me more turbos.

I'm still out of pocket for the manifolds that didn't fit, for the power steering pump I had to buy, for every time I've had to remove and refit failed turbos.

Still out of pocket for the GCG Invoice/Turbo you guys instructed me to buy so I could make it to WTAC and fly the BW/FR flag for you!!

GCG.pdf

I've had 7 EFR turbos on my car now, that doesn't happen overnight by the elves. Only last week I had the head off because we lost compression on the dyno when tuning the new u-beaut replacement turbos you supplied.

Surprise surprise it was a bit of a previous exhaust wheel jamming the valve open in cylinder 6, my mechanic reckons I was moments away from dropping the valve as the retainer was flogged out and the shim had been dislodged.

Who would've paid for the rebuild if indeed I did drop a valve as a result of a previously blown turbo...?? I reckon it would've been ME..!!

4 months of not having a car to play with, 4 months of very little correspondence from BW/FR, 4 months ago I hoped you would do the right thing and look after me.

4 months and 4 blown turbos later I now know I'm on my own - thanks for personally rectifying things for me, most appreciated!

Thanks for sending me 4 more too, atleast now I can take off the super dooper 2012 spec ones and put back on the 6258's, that'll make it turbo numbers 8 & 9!!

Anyone want to buy some 2012 u-beaut super dooper super secret turbos ?? I could do with some cash right now.....

[GTScotT]

Anyone want to buy some 2012 u-beaut super dooper super secret turbos ?? I could do with some cash right now.....

If your really keen Ive got some cash laying about

[Lithium]

I actually know of more installed EFR turbos failing than I know of running happily now. Crikey!

[zebra]

Wonder what the Champ car teams and Cosworth are thinking at this point?

[TheKeeper]

John.. since you have the pitch forks and the torches out I'm not going to bother with entire timeline on the behind the scenes work.

I will let you know I was your biggest asset/fan over here in the states, and I have been (until your post) working with BorgWarner to make things right, and as justifiable as possible for you.

When we sent the second set of turbos we decided we would ship another set (4 and 5) on our dime with them just in case you had another failure (by that time we had seen 2 other failures on other cars). We wanted to make sure you could compete. We told you (or your shop), "here are two extras...we don't know how these are going to hold up."

Originally we told your installers or whomever purchased the manifolds from us we had only test fit them in an R34. Had you decided to jump ship at that point nobody would have been upset, since we had not had a chance to put them in an R32/33 it would have been understandable. Since you decided to forge ahead with making them fit, we felt obligated to do what we could to help. We also offered to build a second set for you that would fit your car if we could get a jig or a the set back that you had modified when the event was over to build them from.

It's unfortunate you are out the money to make these turbos work and ultimately fail, but I can assure you that the late night emails to AU and the early morning calls to BW to do what I can for you are most likely going to come to an end sooner than later. You may have vented too soon.

Lesson learned for both of us.

Edited November 17, 2011 by TheKeeper

[zebra]

Into the too hard basket it goes