[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[Full-Race Geoff]

here is a video of the fastest auto-x run of the day, you can hear our coilpack working, then not, then working then not. soo frustrating, I can only imagine how much faster we would have gone without the miss

the ETS-pro is great, you can see at the launch that all 4 wheels are spinning, and then at the end you can see a perfectly controlled 4 wheel drift

[DVS JEZ]

Sounds cranky

[bigmikespec]

Are there any other EFR 9180 results yet? (Besides Sierra Sierra)

And can anyone confirm that the Indy cars will be using these turbochargers and if they will be any different from the production version available to the public?

[Full-Race Geoff]

Yes - I can confirm all 2012+ Indycars use a 100% off-the-shelf EFR rotating assembly, the same exact turbine and compressor wheels / shaft / bearings that every aftermarket customer will receive. The wheels are literally 9180 and 6758s. The only difference is indycars weld the twinscroll housing to their headers, so there is a different inlet (i can post a pic if you need to see). for the twin turbo chevrolet engines, they get an external WG t25 housing for the 6758s (this is so teams can not cheat and raise the boost). same center sections however

2 races completed, no turbo failures (edit for the haters!)

Edited April 3, 2012 by Full-Race Geoff

[GTScotT]

Is there any indication when the lead time will become weeks instead of months?

[zebra]

Anyone know if Penske are running the Single turbo or the Twins?

[Full-Race Geoff]

Anyone know if Penske are running the Single turbo or the Twins?

penske is winning because of their suspension/chassis perfection imo, the turbos were within 1/2mph of one another. here is a photo, you can see the penske dampers and the twin EFR 6758, stock center section complete with internal wastegate mounting holes in these 2 photos:

chevy twin turbo:

Lotus twin turbo here:

Honda is running the single twinscroll turbo:

note: honda is the only team using "header bags" to contain the heat. chevy and lotus just use raw or coated tubular fabricated headers.

Is there any indication when the lead time will become weeks instead of months?

I do not know the answer to that question yet, BW are hesitant to give us anything until tracking numbers are ready. We will certainly let everyone know the updates we receive.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Full-Race Geoff

[zebra]

Thansk Geoff

found a few more general pics of the cars

http://photos.speedtv.com/gallery/INDYCAR_2012_Technical_Photos/slideshow/2012_IndyCar_Technical_Images/0fdQ3Hc7CTebS%5C

[bigmikespec]

Geoff, are the Indy cars running antilag with these turbochargers? Also, do they have a use program i.e. after one race, throw in bin put a new one on?

A twin EFR 6258 would be cool with external wastegates... just not much room!!!!!

[Full-Race Geoff]

Geoff, are the Indy cars running antilag with these turbochargers? Also, do they have a use program i.e. after one race, throw in bin put a new one on? A twin EFR 6258 would be cool with external wastegates... just not much room!!!!!

mike, my understanding is that indycars are using their own unique antilag system, it is not the rallycar wrc style air injector valve style

everything for these teams is regimented and methodical, typically the engine and turbo are serviced together as a unit and my understanding is that they only change the turbo if they need to change the engine. anybody watching the races can clearly see there were no turbo failures or teams frantically rebuilding their motors during any of these races

[black bnr32]

excellent wastegate placement on those cars!

So Geoff, after your first outing, any regrets on your choice of turbo size and rear turbine size? Any plans to test different turbo/turbine combos on this car?

Edited April 3, 2012 by black bnr32

[Full-Race Geoff]

I am daily driving the EFR 8374 internal-wg on my 2.0L twinscroll evo street car for 2 months now so it was a lot of fun to try the external gate on my 2.6L RB26 it is another animal completely. We flogged it for 4 days straight and i drove both cars on the local streets and highway at different rpm points and loads. I know this RB26 engine/head/cam combination very well (had it for years now) so i can confidently say that no turbo has worked nearly as well as this unit. Of course i really got my chassis sorted which helps confidence at speed, but biased or not this is the best setup ive ever felt in the car. My driver for the autocross was a long time friend from engineering school who competively races 997tt porsche and mustang v8 autocross prepped cars, he calls my car "the easy button" just punch it and instantly the torque is up, very driveable and forgiving

One particular comment is this turbo's powerband works well with the 5 speed r32/33 transmission and 4.111 fd. I no longer feel obligated to swap the R34 6 speed box in (I wanted to save the 6 speed for my dedicated race car anyway). On all previous turbo setups i felt the 6 speed box was necessary. Torque comes on so much earlier and stronger with the EFR, huge improvement.

My comments/thoughts are:

-i prefer the internal wastegate EFR 8374 .92 a/r. to me this is the cleanest and lightest weight way to run this turbo. On my evo i absolutely love it - not once have i wanted external wastegates. the amount of work required to properly recirculate (2) external wastegates is no small feat. I invested HOURS into this, and will never offer recirc'd external wg's for customers... it literally takes that much time. If its a serious dedicated race car however, the external gate is the way to go.

-since im already on the external wg twinscroll T4 config, im extremely interested to know what the 9180 does to the powerband? that will probably be the next turbo i try, if its as "magical" as the indy guys say i might keep it there and not go to internal wg 8374

-my next major change is to use the proEFI ecu and get wider rear fenders. On the 275 street tires it is easy to do 4 wheel burnouts from the EFR turbo and ETS-Pro center diff controller. Using the proEFI traction control combined with the efr turbo and ets-pro i believe we can have one of the fastest street tire cars in the USA, my goal is to run the 315/30/18 and then pro-efi traction control to put it all down. i cant imagine any rwd cars being competitive there, we will see! maybe if we can get our act together and make it to WTAC 2013

[bigmikespec]

Yes give that 9180 a go on some pump fuel please Geoff. The only equivalent would be a 67mm S400SX correct? But from what you have outlined that is more of a class drag racing turbocharger.

[scandyflick]

Finally booked my car in for a tune next week.

Should have results for the 6258/SR20 combo next Tuesday.

[GTScotT]

Finally booked my car in for a tune next week.

Should have results for the 6258/SR20 combo next Tuesday.

Ohhh I'm excitement!

If I don't BIN my SR before then you may sell me! Here's hoping man.

P.S. I take it that the wiring stuff we discussed worked out?

[scandyflick]

Didn't get around to wiring it in unfortunately.

And being one of those things that could quite easily turn into a massive clusterf**k, I've decided to put it on the back burner for now. Got a track day on the 16th, which I am not under any circumstances going to miss...

As it is, the car still hasn't been started in 12+ months...

Tune will be with the low pressure actuator for about 14psi, then after track day, LQ9's will be going in, 18 psi actuator fitted, and tuned for 20ish psi.

[Car nage]

i've also been trying to find info and results of the EFR turbos and stubbed on this last year but haven't kept up to date so 46 pages later....

i've emailed full race regarding set up for my SR so supper keen to see how you go dave. reckon the experance you have will judge if i go ahead.. or go just for a GTX28 good luck

[scandyflick]

Tuned by Willall Racing today. So after a long year, I can finally report some results.

Mainline dyno.

BC 262 cams. (I think they may be larger, it sounds real angry at idle).

140-145 compression across the board.

E85 with SARD 850cc injectors.

Blitz SBC-S boost controller.

Custom made thick walled S/S manifold.

And finally, there's an air leak somewhere. Inlet manifold I think, gets up to 17psi nice and quick, drops to 15psi, and holds. Probably a handful of KW to be liberated there.

Anyway, results,

261 @ 17psi (bleeding off to 15). Full boost somewhere around the 3,400rpm mark. It always wants to get onto boost, cruising at 90km/h in 5th gear and you just have to breath on the pedal and it comes onto boost. Comes on nice and strong, but even with my dodgy 11 o'clock at night eye alignment, it's very controllable. And yet, it'll quite happily chalk 255's in 3rd.

And it sounds f**king brilliant.

Gonna get it smoke tested if I can find someone that does it, seal up that leak, and put it back on the dyno.

I've asked the tuner (Donnon) to email the dyno sheet, so hopefully I'll be able to get that up in the coming days.

[petero'nell]

Tuned by Willall Racing today. So after a long year, I can finally report some results.

Mainline dyno.

BC 262 cams. (I think they may be larger, it sounds real angry at idle).

140-145 compression across the board.

E85 with SARD 850cc injectors.

Blitz SBC-S boost controller.

Custom made thick walled S/S manifold.

And finally, there's an air leak somewhere. Inlet manifold I think, gets up to 17psi nice and quick, drops to 15psi, and holds. Probably a handful of KW to be liberated there.

Anyway, results,

261 @ 17psi (bleeding off to 15). Full boost somewhere around the 3,400rpm mark. It always wants to get onto boost, cruising at 90km/h in 5th gear and you just have to breath on the pedal and it comes onto boost. Comes on nice and strong, but even with my dodgy 11 o'clock at night eye alignment, it's very controllable. And yet, it'll quite happily chalk 255's in 3rd.

And it sounds f**king brilliant.

Gonna get it smoke tested if I can find someone that does it, seal up that leak, and put it back on the dyno.

I've asked the tuner (Donnon) to email the dyno sheet, so hopefully I'll be able to get that up in the coming days.

Congratulations on the result, but the No.s seems low for what its got.

I have a Garrett GT2871 56T in .64 rear in my 180SX SR20det with Tomei Pon cams and that made 260rwkws on 18psi with pump 98 fuel. 261rwkws on E85 is propabably just pass 230rwkws on pump. Whats that turbo equivalent to in Garrett range?

[bradsm87]

Does anyone have any details on the new EFR 7163 B1 frame turbo?

Also what are the new turbine housing options that are coming soon?

Cheers