[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[abr33]

Im hoping to have the 7670 tuned on my 25 in about 3 weeks. Test fit today, very very close. the exh housing is about 7mm from the cam cover. Ill put some heat foil to help from melting the foam in the baffles. The comp cover is about 10mm off shock tower...

Also im running a 3/8 hose for the drain instead of 1/2 inch. Pretty sure that wont be a problem.

Very keen to have it going!

[discopotato03]

I was sniffing around for B1 frame dimensions and came across this thread with pics comparing an EFR 6758 with a Garrett GTX3071R . I'm trying to get an idea of how a 7163 compares to a GT3076R packaging wise . EFR B1 frame turbos are all the same size externally , except turbine housings , as is the GT3076R/GTX3071R .

Note the BW EFR is a lot longer in the cartridge as well as the IW turbine housing . That 3071 is using a Tial ext gate housing .

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5163852-EFR-Anatomy

A .

Edited November 23, 2013 by discopotato03

[Full-Race Geoff]

Hmmm im really liking the idea of an EFR on my evo 9. Kits are priced damn good compared to bolt on turbos too! What would you recommend for 300+kw with the best possible response Geoff?

I like this kit but is it possible to use a 7064 instead of the 7670 as my car is stock block 2L? http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbo-kit/mitsubishi-evo-4-9-4g63-top-mount-iwg-efr-twin-scroll-turbo-kit-1.html

thats a solid kit, i run it on my 2.0L evo8. Most people love the 7670 twinscroll kits since it spools similar to a stock 9 turbo but makes gobs more power everywhere else. If youre wanting something smaller than 7670 with quickest possible response and 300+kw --> twinscroll 7163 top mount is my recommendation. After christmas Im planning to switch my evo from 8374 to 7163, should be spool monster status with great response.

Here it is about half way down . http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f424/game-changer-efr-7163-a-159047/

Note the first post where the OP reckons according to Garrett the Indy EFRs don't use the lightweight turbines ?

I'm not sure if a 7064 tops out higher than a final spec 7163 , bigger housings ?

Whatever 60 lb/600 Hp potential is right up there for the frame size . Honeywell must be wondering what to do when this turbo arrives in volume , the OE market would be watching too .

-if it's true somebody said that at Garrett.. they should fact check All indycars use off-the-shelf EFR wheels. Gamma-ti turbine and FMW compressor wheels are unchanged, literally *off-the-shelf*. they dont put heavy inconel wheels in the indycars thats idiotic to suggest since the primary reason those cars use these turbos is the lightweight turbine wheel

-7064 is available with 0.92 or 1.05 a/r, both of which have much more exhaust flow capacity than the 7163. if an application is backpressure limited this turbo has the upper hand

-Conversely the 7163 has a higher performing turbine and compressor pair, but with 0.80 twinscroll it seems to me more of a spool-monster going than a topend target.. in order to maxx out 60lb/min topend flow rates on the 7163, i think the 0.85 a/r singlescroll will be the choice

-i can confirm one OE is very interested in using the twinscroll 7163 on a high power v6 engine. our f150 results have been watched closely but the single turbo on a v6 combination presents additional manifold/piping and heat protection measures that adds cost compared to 2 cheap twins on an integrated manifold... so twin turbo still seems to be the way forwards for the v6 and v8 engines but there is a big future ahead for turbocharging technology.

Earlier I found a thread on the Mazdaspeed site that had the comp map of the 7163 , interesting if you haven't seen it , very wide so a wide ranging unit overall .

the 7163 comp map and turbine parameters were recently uploaded to matchbot: http://www.turbodriven.com/en/performanceturbos/matchbot.aspx

also a brief video from SEMA 2 weeks ago talking about the features, showing the wheels and the vband iwg 7163 turbo, etc : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIHQDw0mBV0

Edited November 23, 2013 by Full-Race Geoff

[discopotato03]

Just to catch me up the 0.85 AR open housing for the 7163 is T3 flanged ?

A .

[GTScotT]

I want to know the above also, I thought it was T2 but .85 is quite large

[discopotato03]

Here is a link to a thread that compares an EFR 6758 to a "GT30" which from the pics looks like a GT3071R with a drilled and slotted comp cover . http://www.skoda-club.org.ua/forum/showthread.php?tid=53009

When I remember how to translate it it may be an interesting read .

A .

[discopotato03]

Another link to an article on EFRs .

In the text below the compressor map it mentions the 0.85 AR open housing as T3 flanged .

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1750/PageID/2474/BorgWarner-EFR-Turbo-Feature-Set.aspx

This would be the most straightforward way to bolt a B1 frame EFR like a 7163 onto a single turbo RB six .

I'd like to think that a 7163 with this housing would be more than a match for a GT3076R 0.82 IW turbo on an RB25 . Maybe not as responsive as a TS T4 0.80 housing but the plus is that if the open housing maxes the turbine flow then maybe a beefier top end .

A .

[Lithium]

An EFR7163 on an RB25 would certainly be a very interesting thing. When is your 52-trim GT30R hitting the dyno so we can see the starting point before a comparison?

A GT-RS vs EFR7163 vs GT3076R would be very very interesting, actually.

[Nee-san]

The only question is, for a 400 - 420 ATW KW GT-R

7670 or 8374? Both 0.92 Divided IWG.

Hard choice!

[Lithium]

The 7670 won't do it, so choice is easy I reckon

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[discopotato03]

The 52 trim will happen just have do a few more pressing things like brakes first . Depending on how the 3076R goes a 7163 may follow though that won't be any time soon . I'll wait to see what people think of these 7163s though I have no reason to doubt Geoff when he says they are a great thing .

I've mainly been looking for pics of the B1 frame turbos next to GT3076Rs to get an idea how they'd go on an RB25 with the std manifold . One issue may be the recirc housing on the comp cover because its right about where a GT3076R is close to the std exhaust manifold . I think I need to hang out for a 20mm T3 spacer when the GT30 goes on because a bit more manifold clearance can't hurt .

I also noticed that the water line fittings are same or similar threads to the Garrett BB ones so easy if you already have braided lines .

A .

[abr33]

The 7670 won't do it, so choice is easy I reckon

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Wont do 400 or 420?

[GTScotT]

Wont do 400 or 420?

Realistically; neither.

While the power is in scope for the 64lb compressor it should be noted that a .92 AR housing is actually quite compact in divided form, and whilst the IWG on these is game changing its a tall order to ask 600whp from. Let's be Frank (because being Jason can get boring), if you want 400-420kw you would want to hope you picked a turbo with at least 450kw up its sleeve..

At the levels described you will want to know you are doing your damned best to ensure a good result, and relying on a likely undersized IWG is far from.

[abr33]

Fair enough, I hope to get mine done in 2 weeks. Im looking around the 380 mark. Thats with a 50mm ex gate but

[Lithium]

Very interested to see how that goes - you are in the US? If your car is being tuned on a Dynojet and you are leaning on it then it'll probably go 400rwkw+, 400+kw is not likely on a Dyno Dynamics but Dynojet/Dynapack it'd be doable.

[GTScotT]

Fair enough, I hope to get mine done in 2 weeks. Im looking around the 380 mark. Thats with a 50mm ex gate but

With a 50mm EWG I believe 380 is reasonable.

Keep us updated.

[bradsm87]

The IWG on the .92 housing would only ever be a problem if you were trying to run very low boost on a V8 or something. Generally on any RB or whatever, you need to run a lot of boost to make a lot of power. To run a lot of boost, the gate needs to be more closed. The more boost you run (making more power), the smaller the gate you need. Putting a bigger than necessary gate on just means that it will be more closed for the same target boost level.

800hp through a .92 IWG:

Edited November 26, 2013 by bradsm87

[Lithium]

I think he is imagining that using a big gate is a way around the back pressure, which is probably a bit hopeful unfortunately.

[Sub Boy32]

Grrrr! Backpressure!

One day I will get around to putting some exh sensors on to find why I can't squeeze any more than 20psi out of my 8374......E85 and 40psi, now that would be fun! Haha

Edited November 26, 2013 by Sub Boy32

[Lithium]

Haha - you know how I took a punt at your power in your build thread and it ended up really close what you actually made? That was because I looked for where I reckoned your motor's flow and the choke line of the compressor would overlap....