[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[R_34]

Look at the flowmap on the matchbot BW provided. Yes it can flow 60lb/min but with 58% efficiency or even less. It's more 52/55 lb/min turbo I think. Still impressive for a 71mm compressor.

I was interested in the 7064 which seemed a nice street oriented turbo for a normal breathing 2L motor.

The 7163 looks much better but I still don't know what to think on the improvements from the mixed flow turbine.

It looks good on paper, but so far that's the story of the EFR. So good on paper and so few on the streets.

[GTScotT]

*itching*

I can afford one of these if I really want to LOL

[Mick_o]

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GTScotT]

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL I'll see what prices are like when I finish a couple of jobs I'm doing at the moment. Payment from those will fund the next changes... But they were meant to cut out rust and paint the car

Ahhhhh the addiction of speed..

[Lithium]

Look at the flowmap on the matchbot BW provided. Yes it can flow 60lb/min but with 58% efficiency or even less. It's more 52/55 lb/min turbo I think. Still impressive for a 71mm compressor.

I checked the map back to where it dropped to ~65% efficiency (where a lot of the Garretts cut off at) and it was still around 55-57lb/min which is pretty damn good - GTX3071R territory I guess, which isn't at all bad or surprising.

[GTScotT]

I checked the map back to where it dropped to ~65% efficiency (where a lot of the Garretts cut off at) and it was still around 55-57lb/min which is pretty damn good - GTX3071R territory I guess, which isn't at all bad or surprising.

Plus, modern ethanol based fuels mean we get better access to the map anyway.

Agree with Lith, is a lot of flow for a little compressor.

For me I am believing it possible due to 57mm inducer and described 'aggressive' blade design in FR youtube vid. Aggressive design made possible by mixed flow turbine. I has faith.

[Lithium]

What raises my eyebrow is it's a 64 trim compressor, that is a hell of a trim - usually suggests lazy response for external diameter and a surge risk (quite glance at the map and the surge line definitely leans over to the right harder than some), again I can't really make any call on what it means as it's clearly such a different design to anything else I've seen - I am SO interested in seeing how this turns out, I love it that I am puzzled. I hope it's because we're going to be surprised and amazed, we've been waiting long enough and the EFR hype promised a tidal wave and has still really only provided a bit of a swell.

[Tonba]

If I ever get a FR layout daily driver (Toyota chaser or something like that), I'd LOVE to try one of these turbo. Unfortunately, they aren't packaged well for the east-west engine layout of my evo.

For a street RWD, I think the 7670 would be an EPIC combo.

[Lithium]

^ Agreed - now I've decided not to do it for sure, I actually was all but sold on building my RB25 and going a twin scroll EFR7670 for it a year or so ago, a variety of events (probably one of the biggest was the EFR supply and reliability issues at the time) gave me time to rethink my priorities... I think it would have made for a lot of fun. I'd not go that small on anything bigger than an RB25, though. I hope abr33 can get his EFR7670 setup running better, his results don't add up year - and I'm hoping it's not because the EFR7670 isn't all it's cracked up to be. There are still too many results of EFRs out there which are "not a bad result, xxx and yyy isn't ideal yet but should be able to be sorted" but never are. Not necessarily the turbo's fault, but while that is the majority it gets a bit frustrating trying to work out what you should expect.

I really can't believe there are so few good results out there for them!

[NismoSTune]

Hence why the tried and true Precisions kick arse!!!

[GTScotT]

^ Not constructive.. Or accurate.

When someone does properly test one of these turbos - balls to the walls - then we can comment and say 'bcoz precision'.

[Lithium]

^ Not constructive.. Or accurate.

When someone does properly test one of these turbos - balls to the walls - then we can comment and say 'bcoz precision'.

Totally - I was absolutely not saying the BWs are crap, just it's a bit frustrating or even surprising how little info there is on there. I suppose the best thing Precision have over the EFRs are the whole "better the devil you know" angle... because they have been around for so long if you do your research you'll find that they all make the kind of power figures they are sold as being good for doing (the power claims have adjusted to suit), the respond reasonably well for the power they can make compared with a lot of units out there, and you know that they seem to have a slightly higher failure rate than other things in their price range.

The good Borg Warner EFR results DO suggest they are equal or better than the equivalent Precision units, but for every reasonable EFR result there is probably 100+ Precision ones. Again, this is likely to be a lot (if not everything) to do with how long Precision have been doing their turbos, versus how slowly the EFRs have been leaking into the market.

Good thing we have Garrett and FP, eh?

[discopotato03]

I know this doesn't help but I suspect the 7163 has taken so long because it was a work in progress and the company fronting the bucks makes its bread in OE ranges .

Also if it went through development phases from competition use that can be very slow . Good chance the TI material is hard to work with so time and resources to get it as effective as possible .

I really hope BW has been churning this turbo out in volume and only holding them back to have big stocks on release day .

I also really hope that mixed flow turbine works as well as those in the know say because it will be a game changer if it does . In pics it doesn't look very long along its axis so maybe laying the scrolls over lets them get away with minimum material and mass/inertia .

Fingers crossed this turbo will be the gun in its power range and some of its smarts may flow over to other units in larger frame sizes .

The bitch in me hopes other manufactures like Honeywell are watching closely because it might light a fire under their lack of performance turbo hot side development .

A .

[NismoSTune]

I know this doesn't help but I suspect the 7163 has taken so long because it was a work in progress and the company fronting the bucks makes its bread in OE ranges .

Also if it went through development phases from competition use that can be very slow . Good chance the TI material is hard to work with so time and resources to get it as effective as possible .

I really hope BW has been churning this turbo out in volume and only holding them back to have big stocks on release day .

I also really hope that mixed flow turbine works as well as those in the know say because it will be a game changer if it does . In pics it doesn't look very long along its axis so maybe laying the scrolls over lets them get away with minimum material and mass/inertia .

Fingers crossed this turbo will be the gun in its power range and some of its smarts may flow over to other units in larger frame sizes .

The bitch in me hopes other manufactures like Honeywell are watching closely because it might light a fire under their lack of performance turbo hot side development .

A .

I agree about some things but What about garrett's dual boost turbos or even the VGT (or VNT) turbos? Those are fairly advanced no? I think some BMWs use those in twins as does some porsches.

[SimonR32]

I personally think that I would prefer an EFR8374 on my car. In saying that you couldn't really ask much more from the PTE 6262, 710rwhp is crazy and response is very good.

The main thing that turned me off the EFR was the physical size and lack of housing options in external gate, in fact if someone can show me one will fit between my strut tower and my motor, plus a T4 divided in a 0.8 rear and I'll give it a go

[Piggaz]

I personally think that I would prefer an EFR8374 on my car. In saying that you couldn't really ask much more from the PTE 6262, 710rwhp is crazy and response is very good.

The main thing that turned me off the EFR was the physical size and lack of housing options in external gate, in fact if someone can show me one will fit between my strut tower and my motor, plus a T4 divided in a 0.8 rear and I'll give it a go

Would be very interested in a back to back between the PT and the BW, after matty's effort. Both need to be on E85 though.

You think the BW would give that much more than the PT?

[SimonR32]

Would be very interested in a back to back between the PT and the BW, after matty's effort. Both need to be on E85 though.

You think the BW would give that much more than the PT?

I think power would be down a little but response would be better... How much, well who knows? Would it be worth it, probably not haha

[Piggaz]

I think power would be down a little but response would be better... How much, well who knows? Would it be worth it, probably not haha

Do it! Someone needs to back to back it

[reaper]

I think you'd be able to squeeze one in between the strut tower and rocker cover on a traditional manifold there is a uk 33 gtr with a 9180 on a hks t4 manifold and it just fits.

The full race manifold sits the turbo a fair way forward so turbo clearance isnt an issue but im having trouble finding room to run a screamer back to the dump. As it currently sits I have 1 screamer dumping infront of the passenger wheel which is not something im too happy about. The only way I can see a screamer making its way back to the dump is if I was to remove AC.

[GTScotT]

9180 and AC don't belong in the same post lol.