[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[R_34]

+1

The datasheet of the B framed EFR showed clearly the turbine housing being taller than the compressor cover on the draft but seeing it fitted on the manifold is reassuring.

I didn't expected it to be so close to the strut tower though.

The STD heatshields seem compatible also.

At least the manifold one. The one around the turbine housing may not fit, it need some trimming or fabricate a new one.

The 7670 feels a little lazy, is it the high,medium or low pressure canister ?

Which EBC is he using ?

I wasn't able to find a nice T3 to vband adapter, only dodgily welded thingy which are too tall. Unless you could find/make one more compact you'll end up with similar if not less space between the housing and the strut tower with a 7163 with such an adapter.

It leans me more toward the 7163 with a T3/T4 TS cummins adapter plate on the stock manifold for my 20.

But it will need to have the manifold welded then decked to remove the notch in the middle of the flange. It will not be a true twin scroll setup per say as the 3 front cylinders will have an awful design but still better than with an open scroll housing I think.

[Full-Race Geoff]

Will the 7163 with a T3 to Vband adaptor really be a better fit?

the 7163 is about 40mm shorter in axial length and the turbine housing's physical diameter is smaller. If you are really tight on space, its easy to weld a T3 flange (SS) to the B1 EFR's stainless Vband like this

The STD heatshields seem compatible also.

potential for sleeper status is strong on this one

Edited December 15, 2014 by Full-Race Geoff

[MotHot]

Well, space is tight but not tight enough for welding something on a new 2000$ turbo

[MotHot]

Me again, here are some pictures comparing a 7064 to a 7163.

The space gained from the 7163 will probably be used up by the v-band to t3 adaptor.

Another option would be to slightly tilt the engine.

Anyone got any experience with that?

[Malakai]

That's an eye opening comparison right there. Taking one look at those photos rule out the 7163. It's far too small for an RB I think.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Malakai

[Mick_o]

Thomas why do you have all these EFR'S sitting around? Im Jelly as hell dude lol!

Whys a 7163 too small for an RB Brett?

Its bigger than the trusty 3071R which is a damn popular choice on an RB25?

Can't see how a 600hp turbo could possibly be "too small"

Edited December 19, 2014 by Mick_o

[Malakai]

It just doesn't look right. I'm a big fan of BW and love the EFR turbos to bits. But that turbine housing scroll just doesn't suitable. I've been thinking about an EFR as an option on a stock manifold but the more I think about it the more it seems like a less than optimal solution to shoehorn one onto a stock manifold. Much better to do it properly with an aftermarket manifold and then if I'm going to do that I might as well go a better matched external gate setup using an AirWerks 8070 or similar.

[Full-Race Geoff]

dont knock it, if you havent tried it that 7163 is a sick little turbo. the fact that it's in a smallish package is just to help make my life easier when fitting twins on an R32 or R35. If that photo of the 7163 was taken next to a 3071R and it doesnt look so tiny but the b2 EFR is a big frame size

By the way, putting a huge diameter inlet ported shroud compressor housing on the 7163 saw zero benefit across the map. the decision was made to keep the package size minimal with 2.5" inlet and 2.0" outlet.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Full-Race Geoff

[nicknack]

I've been following this thread for a few months. I got my Sr20vet tuned with a twin scroll 7163 the other day. It drives really really well and as expected transient response is amazing. Im not convinced that 300kw at that boost is accurate though judging by other results with the turbo.

It started leaning out up to so we couldn't push it much further. It took about 90% wastegate duty to hold that boost up top and the tuner thinks there was a lot of back pressure, so I wouldn't be surprised if the flex join in my downpipe has started falling apart. Ive got a TURBOSMART IWG 75 with a 23psi spring in there so I would've thought it'd be able to hold boost with less effort. The reason boost tapers up is because we started adding more at the top to see what it would take but didn't end up working backwards and increasing boost lower down

The other thing which might be happening is the bov opening I guess. The signal line for it is quite long and subject to intercooler pressure drop so I wonder if that affects it.

Its a stupidly nice curve though with effectively 4000rpm power band so I'm super happy with that. I'm just not sure if that 300kw is really the turbos potential or if there's a setup (like an exhaust restriction) or dyno factor bringing it Down.

Edited December 22, 2014 by nicknack

[Dale FZ1]

^^ Very nice looking result but the boost control does look suspect. Makes me wonder how things would go with a larger capacity RB engine?

[VFRegal]

Be interesting to hear Full Race - Geoffs thoughts as I would have expected more power for the setup.

[nicknack]

^^ Very nice looking result but the boost control does look suspect. Makes me wonder how things would go with a larger capacity RB engine?

Boost was done like that intentionally. We didn't end up filling in the midrange with boost due to it leaning out.

I've had it hold 10psi till redline with the medium canister.

[Mick_o]

Thanks for sharing your result Nick That curve is nice.

But i was actually expecting more power everywhere with this turbo which definitely makes me suspect some restrictions in your setup.

Love to see some pics and a mod list maybe we can help you troubleshoot?

Was considering this turbo for my Evo when the low mount kit comes out. But i was looking for better response than my FP green but this seems a little laggier

[nicknack]

My build thread is here

http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5350

Block;

- s15 block

- 87mm CP 9:1 VE pistons (making around 9.5:1 compression with thinner HG)

- Spool imports rods (aussie company)

- stock crank, ACL bearings, ARP mains, Cometic 1mm HG

Head;

- p11 SR20ve head with stock cams

- new guides and seals

- BC springs

- a bit of porting and polising (cleaning up casting marks etc)

- p12 cam solenoid

Other stuff;

- Borg Warner EFR 7163 t4 twin scroll with a TS full race manifold

- Mazworx v2 intake manifold (original one cracked everywhere and was replaced)

- Bosch 2200cc injectors, Turbosmart FPR1200 FPR, Walbro 450LPH e85 pump

- Adaptronic plugin ECU and Race tech dash 3

- Ls2 truck coils

- Z32 gearbox with a NPC ceramic button clutch - will hold 600WHP but feels very very nice to drive

- 4.36 diffdiffdiffdiff

I have a flex join in the downpipe so if there's a restriction, I'd say that's it. My offset mid muffler seems too far back to cause that much back pressure, but I'm gonna cut that out anyway

[scotty nm35]

I have a flex join in the downpipe so if there's a restriction, I'd say that's it. My offset mid muffler seems too far back to cause that much back pressure, but I'm gonna cut that out anyway

Most flex joints restrict down half an inch or so with the woven mesh inside, it could cause issues. The ones I use have truck flex inside and are the same size as the pipe internally. Keep the flex joint though, it helps take load off the turbo and manifold.

Best is to drop the exhaust on the dyno and see if there are gains, at least you know which end the issue is then without chasing your tail.

[Tonba]

Also noticed your using stock cams... Surely there are gains to be had by swaping these out?

[Full-Race Geoff]

Most flex joints restrict down half an inch or so with the woven mesh inside, it could cause issues. The ones I use have truck flex inside and are the same size as the pipe internally. Keep the flex joint though, it helps take load off the turbo and manifold. Best is to drop the exhaust on the dyno and see if there are gains, at least you know which end the issue is then without chasing your tail.

that is a good point scotty - Ive also seen the flex joints with internal braid fail, and it makes a 1.5" opening. Dropping the exhaust is the easiest/fastest way to check this, if you are not monitoring exhaust manifold pressure. For this reason i always recommend to use a flex without internal braid

Be interesting to hear Full Race - Geoffs thoughts as I would have expected more power for the setup.

hard for me to draw any conclusions being on the other side of the planet and unfamiliar with the particulars on this setup - not knowing ignition advance, turbo shaft speed, EMAP or WGDC its really just guessing

I will say that a mainline dyno is by far the lowest reading Dyno ive ever used. We had a 500whp dynapack/490whp dynojet subaru (twinscroll 7670) make 340whp on a mainline 4wd dyno recently

[VFRegal]

Also noticed your using stock cams... Surely there are gains to be had by swaping these out?

The P11 cams although not super turbo friendly are still pretty decent for making power. On the high lobe they are a 264/268 with approc 10.7mm lift. He's running a VE head, not a standard red/black top head.

[Tonba]

I think we need to be a little more realistic in turbo expectations.

The EFR7163 is rated at 60lbs or 600HP MAX. That is fully maxed out, providing the engine can take that airflow efficiently. 600HP is around 447kW at the ENGINE.
Assuming 20% driveline loss, your already talking about approx. 358kW @ wheels.

^ This is all assuming the turbo is running to its limit and driveline/dyno losses are capped at 20%.
To be honest, I wouldn't be expecting more then 330~350kW / 442~470HP at the wheels with a EFR7163.

In saying all this, your setup does seem to be slightly down on power, and seems to spool at little slower.. I would start looking at exhaust restrictions first. Make sure your exhaust is AT LEAST a 3" ID...

[nicknack]

Stock p11 cams have a fair bit of overlap so I guess that lowers dynamic compression and doesn't help make power.

I'll try pull the exhaust off tomorrow and check it out. I guess if I can remove a restriction from it I'll see boost rise a bit higher due to less back pressure since I run open loop boost control.