[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[petero'nell]

GCG were able to also advise turbine speeds over 153,000 rpm could cause failure. They reported quite a few failures of the 9180 used in time attack under extreme conditions.

153,000RPM is nothing for a turbo. your stock turbos probably spin hard then that at full boost. There should be no way of exploding turbine wheel at that point. Might be some welding bits fell out of exhaust manifold or things jammed into the turbine housing.

[zebra]

153,000RPM is nothing for a turbo. your stock turbos probably spin hard then that at full boost. There should be no way of exploding turbine wheel at that point. Might be some welding bits fell out of exhaust manifold or things jammed into the turbine housing.

So after BWs mega hours of testing

you're telling us that they are wrong......

[BoostdR]

153,000RPM is nothing for a turbo. your stock turbos probably spin hard then that at full boost. There should be no way of exploding turbine wheel at that point. Might be some welding bits fell out of exhaust manifold or things jammed into the turbine housing.

I hope this is the case

[petero'nell]

Mate's EVO with a Garrett reads off 170,000RPM at 18psi. And that thing's through hundreds of tracks days. 153,000RPM can't cause your wheel to explode.

[BoostdR]

So after BWs mega hours of testing

you're telling us that they are wrong......

I'm just passing on what GCG told me. It's not uncommon for Ti wheels to fail in this way. Borg Warner or not. This is why the limit is posted on the compressor map an they actively support the purchase of a speed sensor and road rage gauge. Ti wheeled turbos are certainly more fussy than their inconel cousins. On closer inspection of my turbine wheel it has porous holes noticeable in the surface which doesn't fill me with confidence in regards to expansion rates.

This whole failure analysis process is about understanding why my turbo failed after 100km to make sure it doesn't happen again. Im not trying to poo poo the product. I've have already bought a replacement 6758.

Matt

[Full-Race Geoff]

153,000RPM is nothing for a turbo. your stock turbos probably spin hard then that at full boost.

Peter, Please understand the max speed will depend entirely on the diameter of the wheels, it doesn't matter who makes the turbo.

560 m/s is turbo mfg's definition of max wheel speed. This is the same across the board for "maximum tip speed" -- Not krpm which does not factor in diameter. 153k rpm is enough to fail most any gt35R or gt40R sized turbo and can only be acheived with a significant boost leak. unfortunately most people do not accurately monitor turbo shaft speed or EMAP which are 2 critical operating parameters for these engines

Mate's EVO with a Garrett reads off 170,000RPM at 18psi. And that thing's through hundreds of tracks days. 153,000RPM can't cause your wheel to explode.

Peter, your friend's Evo has a very small turbo or his speed sensor is setup wrong. There is no reason any aftermarket garrett turbo on evo should be operating at 170k rpm. it would need to have a small turbo with boost leak.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Full-Race Geoff

[zebra]

I'm just passing on what GCG told me. It's not uncommon for Ti wheels to fail in this way. Borg Warner or not. This is why the limit is posted on the compressor map an they actively support the purchase of a speed sensor and road rage gauge. Ti wheeled turbos are certainly more fussy than their inconel cousins. On closer inspection of my turbine wheel it has porous holes noticeable in the surface which doesn't fill me with confidence in regards to expansion rates.

This whole failure analysis process is about understanding why my turbo failed after 100km to make sure it doesn't happen again. Im not trying to poo poo the product. I've have already bought a replacement 6758.

Matt

ImageUploadedBySAU Community1427772038.605493.jpg ImageUploadedBySAU Community1427772475.999362.jpg

was referring to old mate petre

[BoostdR]

Inspection of the failed EFR shows the turbine most likely was damaged due to a piece of the turbine housing coming loose. Discoloration around the fragment area shows it separated recently. Comparing the turbine housings there is a vast difference in finishing. Also the turbine discharge area has been revised. The newer version is channeled around me the entire turbine outlet which flutes the wastegate gas. The earlier version channel is only 30% of the outlet. I wonder if this was done due to uneven expansion rates..

I'll have a chat to GCG. I feel I may have a case for refund/rebuild.

Matt

[cobrAA]

If ever a found my EFR 83/74 1,05ewg with type-R cam not responsive enought, can i simply swap a 76/70 1,05 EWG in place on the full-race manifold and expect a more responsive rb26 ?

Also, #2, I have a haltech ECU, would you rather keep your profecb2 EBC that act as a boost gauge at the time or use the EFR boost module and buy the boost solenoid to control boost over the haltech ?

[Piggaz]

I believe going from the 8374 to the 7670 you will

Need to modify the dump pipe slightly as they're not based on the same frame/housings. It will still fit on the manifold but the exhaust will need to be in a slightly different spot. You maybe should have gone the 8374 in the 0.92 IWG.

[cobrAA]

I believe going from the 8374 to the 7670 you will

Need to modify the dump pipe slightly as they're not based on the same frame/housings. It will still fit on the manifold but the exhaust will need to be in a slightly different spot. You maybe should have gone the 8374 in the 0.92 IWG.

maybe... but got a good deal on a EWG setup.. and was told the difference between IWG and EWG was approx. 80whp by Full-race. Not ot mention the problem with the IWG tha tneed to be swapped for a turbosmart unit.. i just went ahead with the EWG deal I found..

[Full-Race Geoff]

If ever a found my EFR 83/74 1,05ewg with type-R cam not responsive enought, can i simply swap a 76/70 1,05 EWG in place on the full-race manifold and expect a more responsive rb26 ?

Also, #2, I have a haltech ECU, would you rather keep your profecb2 EBC that act as a boost gauge at the time or use the EFR boost module and buy the boost solenoid to control boost over the haltech ?

#1 as long as youre using 1.05 a/r on the 8374 and on the 7670 -- they should drop in place of each other without any changes other than IC piping coupler and intake coupler to suit. I doubt the 8374 will not be responsive enough on RB26, its a really really good combination

#2 Haltech ECU is very good, it can control the EFR 3 port BCSV or the profec solenoid you already have. We just started to carry the 4 port solenoids also, which is an option to consider

I believe going from the 8374 to the 7670 you will

Need to modify the dump pipe slightly as they're not based on the same frame/housings. It will still fit on the manifold but the exhaust will need to be in a slightly different spot. You maybe should have gone the 8374 in the 0.92 IWG.

I disagree Piggaz, i dont think he will need to change anything on the hotside between these two turbos

[cobrAA]

#2 Haltech ECU is very good, it can control the EFR 3 port BCSV or the profec solenoid you already have. We just started to carry the 4 port solenoids also, which is an option to consider

Can I still use my greddy profect just to monitor boost reading ? i like the fact the profec fit in the clock compartment and take zero place while a 52mm gauge will take useless space.

[kaboobie]

Hi Geoff,

For your RB kit with the 6258s is it possible to use an external wastegate on it ? and why did you go with the internal wastegate set up ? was it just for the utilizing the parts that already came with ?

Thanks

[cobrAA]

Bummer... I asked last page about fititng issue with the Single manifold for R32.. i was told it was better to fit a single stage P/S pump.. Well the problem is not the P/S, it's the A/C.

If I go with a R33/R34 A/C pump, can i still use my r32 crank pulley and simply adjust the belt ( if needed) or i need to change everything.. maybe I should've of went with the Raw manifold that clear everything.

[cobrAA]

So is Geoff, the only one who ran a 83/74 on a RB26 yet ??

[Piggaz]

"Reaper" is running a 8374/1.05 on a stock bottom end with step 1 V-Cam.

[HarrisRacing]

I have one, but I am still waiting on my cylinder head and my manifold for my 83/74 .91 AR IWG turbo now from RAW Brokerage.

I will have pumpgas dyno numbers hopefully before summer, but it will be on a BC stroker motor w/ ported head and mild cams.

[cobrAA]

excited to drive mine so wanted to get some review from others hahaha

[Piggaz]

excited to drive mine so wanted to get some review from others hahaha

Go back to about the 26th-28th of January in this thread. There are a few "reviews" on how it went.