[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[Snara]

35 minutes ago, HarrisRacing said:

If going 7670 I would stick with a 2.6L and stock cams. Turbo will be at maximum speed for sure and you will need to add a road rage gauge to make sure you don't destroy it from overspinning. I wouldn't suggest running the boost over 20 psi over 7k rpms. I bet it will *just* make your HP number though. It would be a VERY fun daily driver.

Reason why I say stock cams is because you will start to choke that turbo on top end on the exhaust side and larger (ie-overlapping) cams will only make the backpressure contamination worse in the cylinder.

When I was comparing the 8374 to the 7670 I think I found that the 7670 should hit full boost 500 rpms sooner than the 8374 and make similar power up until around 7k where the 8374 will continue to feed the motor. Of course I was probably looking at 2.75L at the time so I'm sure a 7670 on stock cams and 2.6L is a good choice for a street car that occasionally wants to turn up the boost.

 

Damn, well i like to reeving hard to 8200 rpm on the streets  So maybe the way is 8374 .92

I have already forged engine, HKS SS 264, and chinese GTX35R t3 82, on 1.9b and it make 635hp but it's laggy. Car ride after 4500

Like on video, start from second gear ... i need something faster.

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Snara

[HarrisRacing]

10 minutes ago, Snara said:

 

Damn, well i like to reeving hard to 8200 rpm on the streets 

I have already forged engine, HKS SS 264, and chinese GTX35R t3 82, on 1.9b and it make 635hp but it's laggy. Car ride after 4500

So u think just go with 8374 .92 ?

 

 

I am unfamiliar with the KM to HP conversion but I would guess it's the same, right? Is your HP at the wheels?

In all honesty I wouldn't spend the money changing it, as it looks like solid yet slightly high-end powerband to me. If anything spend the money on a V-cam setup and gain some bottom end that way. I mean you are on a T3 manifold so it would take significant money changing things at this point.

Also the caveat is that the dyno I have is old and doesn't represent the spool I've been able to get out of the car with bottom end changes lately. I have posted my boost threshold data lately. I too wish there was a "perfect" RB26 street turbo between the 7670 and the 8374 but it doesn't exist (yet). Apparently our high rpm band hurts what we can bolt on.

So far I'd say any of the following fit a higher boost (E85 or WMI) street car pretty well:

Precision Gen 2 6062

Borg Warner 8374 EFR (,92 or 1.05)

Borg Warner S300SXE 8376 (little more lag and little higher rpm power than 8374 journal bearing turbo)

GTX35R

Garret -5 twins (These really aren't bad turbos IMO).

 

I think all of these singles will beat the -5's in overall power and will be similar (if not better in some cases) in response, but that comes at a price...real money and a non-stock appearing setup.

 

[Snara]

25 minutes ago, HarrisRacing said:

 

I am unfamiliar with the KM to HP conversion but I would guess it's the same, right? Is your HP at the wheels?

In all honesty I wouldn't spend the money changing it, as it looks like solid yet slightly high-end powerband to me. If anything spend the money on a V-cam setup and gain some bottom end that way. I mean you are on a T3 manifold so it would take significant money changing things at this point.

Also the caveat is that the dyno I have is old and doesn't represent the spool I've been able to get out of the car with bottom end changes lately. I have posted my boost threshold data lately. I too wish there was a "perfect" RB26 street turbo between the 7670 and the 8374 but it doesn't exist (yet). Apparently our high rpm band hurts what we can bolt on.

So far I'd say any of the following fit a higher boost (E85 or WMI) street car pretty well:

Precision Gen 2 6062

Borg Warner 8374 EFR (,92 or 1.05)

Borg Warner S300SXE 8376 (little more lag and little higher rpm power than 8374 journal bearing turbo)

GTX35R

Garret -5 twins (These really aren't bad turbos IMO).

 

I think all of these singles will beat the -5's in overall power and will be similar (if not better in some cases) in response, but that comes at a price...real money and a non-stock appearing setup.

 

Well yes KM=HP, power is on engine, on the wheels is 530HP

I have old t4 twinscroll manifold, first turbo in my project was BW 8375, it spool like chinese GTX.

Now i wanna buy some new age turbo

On second gear i see:

4200rpm - 0.5b

4700rpm - 1b

5100rpm - 1.5b

5600rpm - full boost

 

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Snara

[HarrisRacing]

I'm throwing the -5's back into the ring here for a second

1) Found this dyno of a "fully built, high-rev ready, on 17 psi. 463 whp

2) Same car on 20 psi: 544 whp

3) Seems to be different car (S13) on 20 psi.

4) All stock R32 internals with -5 turbos at 18 psi. 500 whp (really looks like 492 with a smoothing hiccup at the end)

 

so I looked close at the dynos and found a couple of things:

My car beats them all HP to the wheels on initial spool down low in the rpm range of 3500-4700 rpms. Then those at the similar boost levels are around the same HP (which is depressing because I'm a stroker with slightly more displacement) from there to about 6k where they all start gapping me in power. Granted I NEVER touched my ignition timing up there on my dynos so I'm likely leaving a lot of power on the table still. Also I'm now convinced that the 3" exhaust is hurting me up top (and perhaps even the .92 IWG housing). I have read a lot about the IWG setups and backpressure. At high boost and high rpms (ie high EMAP situations) each 1 psi of exhaust pressure can equal up to 2-3 times the turbine/manifold pressure since this is multiplied via the physics of a turbo volute. I did notice ALL of these cars are running 3.5" exhaust.

So yeah...that.

 

[Lithium]

To be fair. ... you have a stroker 

[Nismo 3.2ish]

I see that the 8374 was first mentioned in this thread in 2010, when where they introduced?

Have they been modified at all over that time, 6 years old + ?

[Lithium]

6 minutes ago, Nismo 3.2ish said:

I see that the 8374 was first mentioned in this thread in 2010, when where they introduced?

Have they been modified at all over that time, 6 years old + ?

No.  The only changes in the WHOLE EFR range that I am aware of are:

1) The EFR6255 never ended up being a thing

2) In the earlier days there were some production issues which resulted in some failures, which are now resolved

3) The EFR7163 was released a couple of years later

4) The EFR9174 was released last year, I think

Other than that, the turbos we're talking about now are the same as what I brought up 6 years ago 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Lithium

[mr skidz]

Im a bit skeptical of the white R32 GTR in the YouTube clip it has been up for quite a while and in the comments I'm sure I read that it made that 500 wheel horsepower with standard R32 downpipes off the turbos which he said was robbing him of response.

It's hard comparing other people's set ups to your own unless you know full detailed specs especially when the engine could even be breathing heavy low on comp all sorts of issues could be there that we don't know about so it's probably best that you stick to comparing your engine to something like my own which I know has been freshly Built and I know the details inside out just need to rule out all variables for accurate comparisons.

There is no way I reckon that thing would ever on a standard 2.6 low compression or even a built engine make that Power on such little boost on petrol.

It is interesting to note he's only producing 5psi compared to my 20psi @ 3700rpm and I also start making positive boost @ 1500rpm in 4th on flat road.

So I believe him that he has the downpipes robbing him of response but that horsepower number at the wheels is a little bit inflated I reckon.

[HarrisRacing]

All of their response is not as strong as mine or yours though. You have a stand out -5 car from what I'm seeing compared to those.

[mr skidz]

All of their response is not as strong as mine or yours though. You have a stand out -5 car from what I'm seeing compared to those.

At this stage it's only really standing out in terms of response it feels even better again as yesterday she got it's first oil change from the run in oil and put some light Grade 10/40 in there and it is a little bit snappier again.

Everything I put in the car was just there to optimise throttle response and to encourage fast spooling.
If it hurts my 600whp target on E85 im cool with that as it's not hard to change out some cams and springs as my head has been relieved already to fit high lift ones if needed.

[HarrisRacing]

I'm digging it. I really would like some pull videos to compare to my car. It's still hot as hades here (was 95 deg F today), but I'd really like to run our videos back to back and compare setups. You know my whole setup. I'm curious to see yours.

[mr skidz]

No worries how about 3rd gear from 1000 RPM full throttle to Red Line?

And a log to confirm?

[HarrisRacing]

Cool. I can do that now. I'm only 17-18 psi...may try 20 if it takes it.

[mr skidz]

Well to be fair to your setup and rule out your restrictive 3 inch downpipe just leave it at 17 18 and we'll do that. It won't make a difference to response on my setup as closed loop boost control doesn't start working till it hits a predetermined boost level anyway

[HarrisRacing]

Done. Internet racing at it's finest LOL.
I must say it's really neat that we can even do this so quickly and easily separated by such long distances!

Ended up with almost exactly 4.5 sec from 5k to 8k. Remember it's HOT here. I live in Louisiana zip code 70508. And sorry seems to have a bit of a spike in the mid range.

also a little lagniappe for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arlX2DfbLoQ

 

3rd gear pull.zip

[mr skidz]

Bahahahaah! [emoji122][emoji23]
Borg vs -5 Internet racing championship.

*can't see ya rev gauge properly, I liked the other angle close up.
Looked like you stabbed it at 2k? Or 1k?

[Lithium]

1k sounds ridiculous tbh.

[mr skidz]

1k sounds ridiculous tbh.

Not if I'm making boost at 1500rpm

[HarrisRacing]

Just now, mr skidz said:

Bahahahaah!
Borg vs -5 Internet racing championship.

*can't see ya rev gauge properly, I liked the other angle close up.
Looked like you stabbed it at 2k? Or 1k?

 

I'm on it before the video. I trimmed the video using the go pro (15 sec clip). I'm whistling because I was already on it and the car REALLY didn't like to be that low (I never have tuned full throttle from 1k). But I can put up the whole video if you want. The log is 100% complete and will back it up totally. I honestly have no reason to lie and I don't like to play in the 20-21 psi range because I'm still on the Haltech factory MAP sensor (internal only good to 22 psi).

Also on 255/40/17 hankook RS3's if that matters.

[HarrisRacing]

oh and another thing I noticed. The 3x diodes I put in the alternator sensing line really helped my voltage. Which also made my car too rich pretty much everywhere. I need to reset my dead times at 14+ V (hadn't been able to do that yet).