[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[mr skidz]

^totally agree.
Too many people end up with a car they never wanted due to pissing contests and people 1 upping.

[HarrisRacing]

Harris your log starts at 0map indicating at tps of 100% but you really should show tps on logs as manifold pressure can show a lot of boost at 50% throttle on these itb engines.

*Was referring to the 6:45 to just shy of 6:57 which is 12 seconds @ 5th gear log making 18.1 psi.

You will notice the actual time on my logs is way shorter indicating no foul play from brake boosting and the like.

Your 2nd log
Try using the same boost points as me so we don't have to mentally interpolate between pressures causing us to guess.





Not sure why image links are broken??

Clearly the server crash hurt us all...and I'm on tapatalk for the weekend on vacation so surely my threads are different. We will sort it tomorrow. My tps is linked to my boost control output. I think it was the white line that goes to 100% as soon as I press throttle so it's really where throttle input starts. Easy enough to just pop the tps in there but the real idea is the overall power capability vs. Real world pumpgas boostthreshold. Meaning my boost threshold is very livable, car is clearly making decent power, and I've still got tons of room to grow. Trust me in time it will start showing the potential...I'm still new on my setup and solving other issues.

[mr skidz]

You'll get there ?

[mr skidz]

For those interested in learning more about tuning visit https://www.hpacademy.com/ [emoji23]

[Lithium]

1 hour ago, mr skidz said:

For those interested in learning more about tuning visit https://www.hpacademy.com/

Not sure what you're trying to get at there, this is a thread about a range of turbos - not a tuning thread... though on the other hand it IS good to see people are picking up the HPA stuff, though - whether or not you aim to start getting into tuning yourself Andre and Ben have been doing a great job on making some of what were previously often dark arts to a lot of people become much more accessible and it helps EVERYONE if people getting into a project have more understanding on how the different parts they are working with actually do work, or how things are done and why.   

Don't get ahead of yourself though, good work on doing an online course to start building some fundamentals... that is a massively different thing to being an experienced tuner, you seem pretty excited that you're learning some stuff but with the tone you're using when speaking to people here makes it seem like you seem to be missing a hugely important thing about learning, there is always more learning to do and the trick with not already knowing something - you don't know what the thing is you don't know, and you can never be sure who around you DOES know that thing.  This applies to everyone on this planet.  You doing a course at HPA doesn't mean that you are now Andre 2000, and that we should all step aside and exalt you or lavish the fact we are graced with your infinite wisdom.  It means you've started and may well be equipped to start tinkering with tuning and building some practical experience, to be a catalyst to your own future learning - either with or without the assistance of HPA.

Alas, all other mechanical things being equal from my experience so far there is that there is nothing you are going to learn with tuning that will make a pair of stock location -5 turbos be as good as a good single EFR8374 setup.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Lithium

[mr skidz]

Just a sneaky plug that's all

[mr skidz]

Was a small bit of sarcasm in relation to me laying the tuner term around quite thick.?

Sarcasm is hard to pull off though in text when nobody knows you.

[zebra]

Lol

[mr skidz]

[emoji23]

[HarrisRacing]

[HarrisRacing]

That was old badly configured boost control on the medium wastegate cannister it spools better now.

[Lithium]

15 hours ago, zebra said:

Lol

Hahaha

 

On that note, one of the guys whose cars I tune is pondering an EFR7064 with .83 T3 hotside for his 25T.  If that happens I will acquire all the data 

[minesskyline]

2 hours ago, HarrisRacing said:

Hmm... I would expect more from this turbo based on everybody's thoughts on the turbo. Was this done on 93? And what psi? I know this isn't a -5 vs 8374 thread but the -5 seems to be the most common setup so it's a good comparison. And based on this dyno, the -5's still seem better, no?

Edited August 8, 2016 by minesskyline

[Lithium]

15 minutes ago, minesskyline said:

Hmm... I would expect more from this turbo based on everybody's thoughts on the turbo. Was this done on 93? And what psi? I know this isn't a -5 vs 8374 thread but the -5 seems to be the most common setup so it's a good comparison. And based on this dyno, the -5's still seem better, no?

Yeah, it's understandable given that -5s are basically the "bread and butter" RB26 upgrade and given this is a .92a/r hotside on a 2.7-2.8 it definitely feels a bit at odds... it's a shame there is no boost level shown on that or anything.  Will be awesome to compare Piggaz'  one when his is done

[HarrisRacing]

16 hours ago, minesskyline said:

Hmm... I would expect more from this turbo based on everybody's thoughts on the turbo. Was this done on 93? And what psi? I know this isn't a -5 vs 8374 thread but the -5 seems to be the most common setup so it's a good comparison. And based on this dyno, the -5's still seem better, no?

Boost is on the graph and is straight off of haltech log. Spikes at 19 psi and drops to 17.5 psi on top end (for most of the pull past 6k).

I also have the dyno for 10-10.5 psi and it's 371 whp. I have attached the comparison from first pull of the day to last. This turbo made 100 whp increase going from 10.5 psi to 17.5 psi. I think it would be reasonable to see it hit 500 whp at 20 psi on pumpgas. This turbo is just getting into its efficiency island as well. This is all still on the factory haltech timing basemap.

I want to note that my car doesn't make as much power as most but it kinda have a backwards build.

1) stroker with small cams yet huge intake manifold and high flow turbo and only 3" exhaust with internal wastegate.

2) cut squish pads and low comp valves relieved pistons yet still on pumpgas (low boost) and small cams.

3) hey I built it all myself, tuned it all myself, ported the head myself, drove it myself, and on this 17-18 psi the car still ran a respectable 11.70@120 on pumpgas and 255 street tires like I drive it everyday. When I get my fuel issue sorted get ready for a water meth injection setup and another 6-7 psi boost still on pumpgas. This should net me around 550-600 whp and I think the car will be in the 10s on complete street trim. It will still be in strong competition with R35 GTR'S for less money invested and a good bit more "wow" factor over here in the states.

 

[Lithium]

15 minutes ago, HarrisRacing said:

Boost is on the graph and is straight off of haltech log. Spikes at 19 psi and drops to 17.5 psi on top end (for most of the pull past 6k).

I also have the dyno for 10-10.5 psi and it's 371 whp. I have attached the comparison from first pull of the day to last. This turbo made 100 whp increase going from 10.5 psi to 17.5 psi. I think it would be reasonable to see it hit 500 whp at 20 psi on pumpgas. This turbo is just getting into its efficiency island as well. This is all still on the factory haltech timing basemap.

I want to note that my car doesn't make as much power as most but it kinda have a backwards build.

1) stroker with small cams yet huge intake manifold and high flow turbo and only 3" exhaust with internal wastegate.

2) cut squish pads and low comp valves relieved pistons yet still on pumpgas (low boost) and small cams.

3) hey I built it all myself, tuned it all myself, ported the head myself, drove it myself, and on this 17-18 psi the car still ran a respectable 11.70@120 on pumpgas and 255 street tires like I drive it everyday. When I get my fuel issue sorted get ready for a water meth injection setup and another 6-7 psi boost still on pumpgas. This should net me around 550-600 whp and I think the car will be in the 10s on complete street trim. It will still be in strong competition with R35 GTR'S for less money invested and a good bit more "wow" factor over here in the states.

 

Oh oh- sorry, don't mean to bag your results, and efforts and its very appreciated that you share and I hope that most people realise that these things really are things which will make the results hard to compare with a lot of the "optimized" results on here which are running all in tunes on E85, etc etc.  The results are by no means poor, realistically your power delivery is still better than average for a similar low mount twins setup running that boost level etc - 120mph is not messing around on pump gas and mild boost, and look forward to seeing how it goes when you start winding it up.  Sounds like you've been doing things very sensibly and the fact its going well and holding together is a testament to the fact you are going about it the right way and going in the right direction, given you are learning as you go.  Keep it up!

For what it's worth, one of the guys who I convinced to run a 1.05 EFR8374 has an RB30DET and his head and exhaust manifold were from a 7s drag R32 GT-R and his first tune netted around 600kw @ rear hubs "all in" (DIN correction, would realistically equate to low 500rwkw a Dyno Dynamics or there abouts going off averages) on 23psi running E85 but the boost curve etc was not astounding... it was a very wide power delivery but it was "only" making full boost just before/around 4000rpm.   He has since gone to a .83 T3 housing converted to external gate and reduced the internal diameter of the exhaust manifold runners (which are SLIGHTLY uneven length deliberately because drift cars need to sound angrier - it worked, but no doubt has a slight performance penalty which is hard to know the significance of) and the thing is now building all it's boost just over 3000rpm but making the equivalent of around 450rwkw albeit no longer all in.  

One of the tricks with single turbos is a lot of the advantage is leaves the options for "how" you get it to breath much broader which is a double edged sword when trying to compare performance with something more restricted like -5s where the results essentially should be more consistent give the manifolds, dump pipe configurations and intakes are more likely to be a relatively known quantity as the options and space are limited.  people can run from ~29mm up to over 40mm internal diameter exhaust runners, from 3" up to HUGE dump pipes, different wastegate and collector setups and all kinds with singles and each part of that can have quite significant effects on things.

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Lithium

[minesskyline]

45 minutes ago, HarrisRacing said:

Boost is on the graph and is straight off of haltech log. Spikes at 19 psi and drops to 17.5 psi on top end (for most of the pull past 6k).

I also have the dyno for 10-10.5 psi and it's 371 whp. I have attached the comparison from first pull of the day to last. This turbo made 100 whp increase going from 10.5 psi to 17.5 psi. I think it would be reasonable to see it hit 500 whp at 20 psi on pumpgas. This turbo is just getting into its efficiency island as well. This is all still on the factory haltech timing basemap.

I want to note that my car doesn't make as much power as most but it kinda have a backwards build.

1) stroker with small cams yet huge intake manifold and high flow turbo and only 3" exhaust with internal wastegate.

2) cut squish pads and low comp valves relieved pistons yet still on pumpgas (low boost) and small cams.

3) hey I built it all myself, tuned it all myself, ported the head myself, drove it myself, and on this 17-18 psi the car still ran a respectable 11.70@120 on pumpgas and 255 street tires like I drive it everyday. When I get my fuel issue sorted get ready for a water meth injection setup and another 6-7 psi boost still on pumpgas. This should net me around 550-600 whp and I think the car will be in the 10s on complete street trim. It will still be in strong competition with R35 GTR'S for less money invested and a good bit more "wow" factor over here in the states.

Definitely don't take as what I said as offense. I am not trying to bag on your progress. You're just the only person with results, and I, among everyone else, appreciate what you've done. It probably is too early to call it either way. But your supplemental information does sound more promising. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

There are people with results however they can't be bothered sharing. One of those people just pulled off their setup to go bigger lol

[HarrisRacing]

Not upset at all guys. Just adding clarity to my information for all. When it made 371 whp on 10.5 psi I was actually kind of jaw dropped eager to turn the boost up to pump out 550 whp on pump...but it didn't go up as much as I thought it was going to. I'm still on factory intercooler, still on 3" exhaust and slowly but surely fixing bottlenecks. I think the next dyno trip I'll have 3.5" exhaust ready to go as well as water meth to get my setup really making power. I think on stock bores the stroker isn't doing much especially at lower boost levels but maybe after high lift cams (yes I had the head relieved for larger cams while I was at it) and another 1k rpms this setup will start shining. Still going at it!

[mr skidz]

I think these early stages before you go water/meth and before I go e85 it would be good to see some more positive results from your setup.
I would expect it to run away from my set up in terms of power especially in the 5000 upward region but I'm personally only interested in what your setup is doing up to 4-4500rpm mark as I shift my car on the street usually at 4000 RPM now that my engine can consume a lot of boost much prior to this.

hopefully you can remove your "bottlenecks" and we can do some more comparisons as we have very similar setups in
*similar engine
*cams
*no vct
*standard intercooler
*internal gate
I genuinely hope it all pans out for you as you planned and for what it's worth I hope you whip my result big time because it's a serious turbo[emoji41][emoji111]

And yes this is my daily and birds do shit on it. [emoji16]