Haltech Ps2000

[MJTru]

Hi mate

i own a r33 Nissan skyline Rb25det, i was wondering how i can calibrate my new injector (sard 850cc 1.60ms lag time) I presently have a power fc installed in the car and i calibrated that fine so i know everything works fine. At 25 psi i'm maxing out my Z32 AFM, so i got a plug and play PS2000, and wounding how i can calibrate these injectors.

As a start, under what heading can i find these setting, as i'm new to the haltech world of ecu's, I havent even looked at the software yet, but plan on installing the unit and before i take it to get tuned, I would like too calibrate the injectors so that i can move the car.

I found it simple on the power fc, I hope that it is the same for the haltech ecu's

[zebra]

Best bet would be to look at the software.

Why ask here if you havent even tried to find it yet?

[QWK32]

in the software, to the left of the screen is the ecu navigator bar, in the fuel sub section you will see "inj flow rate" and "inj dead time".

[conan7772]

I hope you're kidding.

The PS2000 is capable of so much.

There's not many people around that can tune the Haltech to it's potentials.

It's worth going to a specialist who can really fine tune it for you.

Not only will you get optimum power, but fuel economy and smooth operation.

If you're in Sydney, see Justin at Tweakit in Mona Vale.

He is head mechanic plus an ex-Haltech engineer.

Haltech is on the back of his hand.

I gained 60 engine kw from my first tune with him without touching the engine , and that was with the E6K !

The E11's were used in Indy cars and the PS2000 is way above that again.

Full sequential ignition and temp induction probes for starters.

You've already spent $2K on the ECU now make it work man.

Edited October 29, 2010 by conan7772

[MJTru]

Yah, I can’t believe I spent that much on an ECU. I tuned the power FC that I have myself, and it wasn’t that bad. I just have a little bit of a problem when it comes to tuning the ignition maps. I don’t feel as if I have fully understood the ignition theory. I have been reading up on this subject, by what I have found is that almost everyone has there own method of tuning this curve (ignition), but in saying this and engine combustion process only works one way. So in our own way we find different ways in feeling it out, Hence everyone’s individuality.

What I have found is that I’m looking for maximum cylinder pressure after ignition; I found that there is a lag period that the fuel takes to burn so the whole process should start BTDC. The more fuel and boost I add the longer it will take to burn, so even earlier (BTDC) the ignition process should start. Is the RIGHT?

Now the hard part for me is finding a good starting point. (Ignition) What I have used as a base at full load is 33 deg above 3500 rpm’s, and around 22 deg below 3500 rpm’s, low to medium load. This is just a ruff starting point. My rule of thumb, please feel free to add your own rule of thumb.

After this I look at knock levels and AFR’s, but looking, and logging knock at the same time you are tuning the ignition curve is key to finding maximum cylinder pressure, as knock levels should be low not high(reasonable). Please remember that the octane of the fuel is also key, as you should know what power you are looking for (realistically) and have that fuel in the tank. The power is in the fuel (octane is how much you can squeeze the fuel before it ignites itself.)(Detonation) I’m I on the right track Mate?

I still learning more and more any help would be thankful Sorry that the topic has strayed a little. But those who can grasp the theory should be helped in fully understanding the theory’s of TUNING.

[JonnoHR31]

Now the hard part for me is finding a good starting point. (Ignition) What I have used as a base at full load is 33 deg above 3500 rpm's, and around 22 deg below 3500 rpm's, low to medium load. This is just a ruff starting point. My rule of thumb, please feel free to add your own rule of thumb.

do not start with 33 degrees of timing under full load, thats ridiculous

also 22 everywhere on light load is no good, standard ecu runs up to around 50 degrees on light load.

your map should be smooth with no sudden jumps between adjacent cells and should progress from moderate timing (30+) at light load to safe timing (10-15) under full load as a starting point

[MJTru]

Thanks mate, insightful

That makes sense, looking at the standard map on the power FC if I can remember right the full load is about 49, witch is close to what you’re saying.

Ok, when adding more boost and fuel the timing should be going up or down (advance or retard)?

What is confusing to me is using the words advance and retard, When you say advance that means moving the timing forward. I’m always thinking ATDC, but in saying that, if I add more fuel and air the ignition should be earlier In the BTDC sector of the combustion process. Now the more fuel and air the long it takes to burn and reach maximum cylinder pressure, so in essence I should retard the timing to optimize the process with more fuel and air. Remembering that more fuel and air will take longer to burn.

What happens if maximum cylinder pressure occurs in the ATDC sector of the combustion process? Do I get power loss? Or more detonation?

I’m thinking that you don’t want it at the exact TDC mark because it will put added stress on the main bearing caps.

If anyone can bring some light to this topic I would be most grateful. Why hold back? Tuning is much more than timing so please consider helping for a moment and if not, please say why.?

Thanks again to those that choose to help.

[JonnoHR31]

have a search on google and do a bit of reading on ignition timing. almost all values anyone ever mentions are all BTDC, if you have the ignition timing after TDC then you have issues as this is way too retarded. for example on my ignition map i've set the bottom load row to 10 BTDC for safety, meaning if i get an overboost of some sort and manage to hit higher cells than normal it'll spark at 10BTDC, which is fairly safe and isnt going to knock.

in most turbo applications with pump fuel its impossible to have peak combustion pressure at TDC under full load without serious pinging. so in most cases you simply run as much timing as you can without any knock to achieve the most power possible safely.

the standard power fc map is nowhere near 49 degrees under full load, any skyline would ping like crazy with that much timing under full load.

maybe post a copy of your map up before you drive the car to make sure your not still mixxed up

[paulr33]

never retard timing to allow you to run more boost

run as much timing as possible on a safe boost level - ie dont run scramble boost, boost switches, dual boost, stage boost, just run one big single safe value then tune - never adjust boost while tuning either. set it at the desired level and lock the controller away. dont EVER run most boost that what you have tuned for. thats how engines fail

the more timing everywhere the more crisp and sharp the car is on throttle

the less timing you run the more sluggish the car is

[MJTru]

Ok mate, I think things are coming around in my head, and I think the whole mix up is in the way the wording is. I try to explain.

When you say give it more timing, I'm thinking "give it more timing and starting at the BTDC mark, I'm thinking moving it closer to TDC mark. So in essence I'm thinking of it all wrong moving it closer to TDC would cause pinging like crazy right? So give it more timing means retard it more and give it more time to burn the whole fuel and air mixture.

Now from what JonnoHR31 said "Google ignition timing" I've been reading, and my eyes looks like I smoke drugs or something, after getting some sleep and gathering my thoughts, here is what I've found, maybe you guys can clarify some of the matters I've learnt or think I did for that matter.

On turbo applications we have to give more timing when coming on boost? So it would be wise to log a boost curve with your ignition curve as well as AFR's right? These 3 seems to be the essentials oh yah and knock, this bring me to the realization that if this is true I've not been logging boost against my ignition map. Seeing how my ignition settings are not set to when my boost comes in, (AMSGT950R turbo) would this cause it to be lazy? I will attach my ignition map Please take a look at it, and let me know what you think. Looking at it I'm thinking that it's a good starting point, but can be so much better, and the only reason I say it's a good starting point is because I would max the AFM out and the engine is still living after a year. The only real tuning I've done is on the Injection (fuel) map. What I've found using a innovate motorsport LM2 wide band is, the valves that are in the power FC base map (fuel). Let's say that in the base map (FC) there is an AFR reading of 12.5 AF ratios in any of the rpm cells at any load point, what's coming out of the tail pipe is not matching up to what's in the map of the power FC. I find myself taking the values in the power FC map in the reds or Lean areas in order to get the right AFR's out the tail pipe (wide band reading) What I'm saying is that the values from the wide band log isn't the same as what is in the power FC is saying. There should have had a constant valve that can bring these values closer together. Is there something like that?

Edited October 30, 2010 by MJTru

[MJTru]

This is the fuel map It looks bad in my opinion

But these value are what i had to place in order to have my AFR's around 12 to 12.5 AFR's

As you can see at idle the values are in the lean area in the 17's but on the wide band o2, it is saying 14.5-14.9 witch is what i'm looking for.

In high load 5600 rpms and 11571 load point i have 14.31 this is what i had to put in order to get the wide band to log a value of 12-12.5 AFR's. This is a difference of about almost 02.0

First i thought that the wide band sensor was clogged but after recallebrating the sensor, it was the same. I even got a new sensor.

thanks again for all your help.

Edited October 30, 2010 by MJTru

[JonnoHR31]

your still mixxed up. when people say more timing they mean higher values in the map, which means more advanced, which means the spark will occur further before TDC. less timing means lower ign values and therefore more retarded, which is safer. its impossible to know from just the ecu maps exactly when the combustion process reaches max pressure but you dont need to know anyway. basically you want to have the highest ignition values in each cell you possibly can without causing knock or going past MBT. under light load 99% of the time you'll reach MBT before it pings, this is usually around 40-50 degrees advance between roughly 2000 and 5000rpm under very light load. under full load you'll almost always get knock before you reach MBT with 98, so for this you need to start with the timing retarded (safe) and slowly advance it, keeping a very close eye on knock levels. be warned tho, 1 wrong number here can completely destroy your motor, so you really do need to have a good understanding of what your doing before you attempt it.

that fuel map does look pretty rough, there shouldnt be big steps between cells, it should be an even change from close to stoich (14.7) under light load to ~12:1 under full load. the colours in the map should flow evenly like most of your ignition map does. also you cant just log a long drive then use the average values from the wideband to tune everything as interpolation and throttle changes etc muck up some of the values.

the pfc values are just rough values of what the afr should be in an ideal world, they're never perfect but most of the time they're not as far out as you say yours are. are you absolutely sure its not running too lean under full load? have you setup the afm and injectors etc correctly?