GTR - Upgrade opinions 350kw @wheels

[meshmesh]

Looking for some opinions on the following items for the GTR.. I would ideally like the parts interchangeable between the R33 & R34 GTR's, however if it isnt possible thats OK.

I'm about to install my HKS GT2530 & SARD 700 injectors... looking for around 320-350kw @ the wheels, but was also considering the following items..

1. Fuel Pump.. Bosch 044 or Nismo Pump.. heard the Nismo is a direct fit?

2. Oil Cooler... Dunno much'o about these & which brand.. saw the GREX oil cooler But again when the R34 arrives, can this be swapped onto the 34?

3. Intercooler.. Thanks to Sydneykid he thinks the Greedy 600x300x115, but I thought I saw somewhere that I need some major mods to fit this giant.. if so, is there a IC that is close to that size that is a direct replacement without much mods? And can it be swapped onto the 34?

4. Oil Catch Can... Do I need one of these? Searched, & found the Cusco cans are good, but any other opinions?

5. Dump Pipes.. CES racing, HKS, or Nismo?? Again, varying opinions but read a post by the kid from Sydney, saying somethin about the HKS having a shorth wastgate seperater, and the longer ones seem to work better? Also noticed that the mines dumps are not split..hmmm opinions appreciated.

thanks guys.

[Merli]

1. Nismo one is a direct fit, but the Bosch 044 is pretty darn simple to install.. A couple of cable ties or clamps, attach the sock filter, wire it up and voila. It's a lot cheaper too and is interchangable between your GTRs... For some reason the NISMO catalog lists different part numbers for fuel pumps for R32/R33/R34 GTR...

2. If you want one that's interchangeable, just buy a generic kit from either HKS or GREX... They'll bolt on and mount in front of the radiator on the driver's side... The car specific kits aren't interchangeable as they sit in the passenger air duct and come with air guides and funky stuff but need cutting and fitting.

3. I've got the GReddy 600x300x115 sitting here waiting to go on as well... Seems like an excellent intercooler for the money, but being 4.5 inches thick, you have to cut away a bit of the bumper to create the physical room needed to mount the monster... I'm not sure what thickness you can go upto without cutting your front bumper.

4. Oil catch can is an Oil catch can. Get which ever you think is the nicest, make sure it's packed with a bit of steel wool.

5. Not too sure on this one. I have ordered HKS ones, but was considering the CES ones. They look VERY well made and designed but are just as expensive as all the Japanese ones. The reason I went with HKS is because I have HKS turbos and HKS front pipes and I *KNOW* that I'll have absolutely zero issues with fitment, whereas the custom-ish CES ones looked........ iffy.

[Amaru]

1. The Nismo fuel pump is a direct bolt in replacement and should suffice for your power requirements. The Bosch pumps require running of new power cables, as the stock ones arnt up to the job (the Bosch pump draws continuous high amounts of current). Youd be best talking to your tuner about this one and see what he advises as the best option.

2. As Merli suggested, a generic oil cooler will be transferrable between models. You can also get small oil coolers that sit in the grill of the car, I believe you would be able to transfer this between models without too much of a hassle

3. The Greddy cooler is an excellent cooler. You could go for something a bit smaller like the HKS Type R which is 600 x 300 x 100 and should do the job for the power levels you are after. Its also from what I understand quite a bit easier to fit.

4. The Cusco ones are good, the Cusco copys from Autobarn are nasty. I was advised to make sure whatever catchcan I got had baffles in it (ala steel wool as Merli said), so id advise the same to you.

5. Despite HKS being a "direct bolt on" and should be a straight fit even onto stock pipes, it never seems to work out this way (I got HKS GT2530's and attempted to mount them on stock dump pipes, they needed slight modification to fit). Id go with the HKS ones as they're the guaranteed to fit straight up, and are widely used and a proven product.

6. Camshafts - yes this wasnt on the list, but are you planning on doing something in this area? I have been in a few cars running N1 and 2530 turbos on stock camshafts, then they fit a set of 256 degree in/out camshafts and it makes them absolutely wild. Arguably one of the best bang for your buck modifications you can do when youre talking about these power levels. You could even go 264/272 degree ones and sacrifice a bit of low end for even more top end power. You can pickup a set of HKS ones for under $1000 if you shop around, or a Jun kit with the camshafts and heavy duty valve springs for around the $1200 mark. Make sure you get the Step 1's though, as the bigger ones wont fit unless you machine the head out a bit

[meshmesh]

6. Camshafts - yes this wasnt on the list, but are you planning on doing something in this area? I have been in a few cars running N1 and 2530 turbos on stock camshafts, then they fit a set of 256 degree in/out camshafts and it makes them absolutely wild. Arguably one of the best bang for your buck modifications you can do when youre talking about these power levels. You could even go 264/272 degree ones and sacrifice a bit of low end for even more top end power. You can pickup a set of HKS ones for under $1000 if you shop around, or a Jun kit with the camshafts and heavy duty valve springs for around the $1200 mark. Make sure you get the Step 1's though, as the bigger ones wont fit unless you machine the head out a bit

Thanks Merli & Amaru,

Camshafts... hmmm sounds finger licking good to me .

Couple of things, with the 256 what lift?? I think the mine's car run 256 with a 9.1 lift thereabouts.. Is it a big job & considering the above +the 2530's my internals will be at their max... if I include the cams, am I going to even further risk blowing something eg pistos, rings.. etc?

[Merli]

With the camshafts, I opted for the Tomei PONCAM 260/260 9.15mm lift setup...

No idea how they'll go with my GT-SS turbos, but here's hoping!

[Amaru]

Well it depends on the tuner and how competent he is as to wether your car goes bang or not. Generally I advise whoevers tuning my car to not take it above 90% of its potential to leave a 10% "leeway" as being a bit down on power is cheaper than rebuilding an engine (hell ive already had to do it once already). But that said, if the tuner is competent and careful you shouldnt have too many problems.

The HKS Step 1 units are 8.7mm lift and the Jun stage 1 cams are 9.7mm and 10.5mm lift. Youd be pushing it getting the Jun ones in, but they should just fit from what i understand. The Tomei poncams are nice as well. I dont think theres anyway to describe how much these effect the car as opposed to driving without them.

And Merli, I saw your car at Drag Combat, I came up with Aurora, he had the black S2 R33 GTST that was parked next to you from Canberra. All I have to say is damn

[Snowman]

Simon,

2 & 4 - Ice Perfomance just made me up a custom oil cooler with remote filter thats working a treat and they do some great custom catch cans - all for a lot less $$$ than Japanese brand name ones.

[Merli]

Thanks Amaru Sorry I wasn't around for most of the day and didn't get to meet you, I managed to score a media pass, so I was running around all day snapping photos by the track or hiding in the media room with the nice airconditioning, free food and free drinks

I agree that it all comes down to tuning. In reality, an RB26 should handle GT2530s (350-360kw @ wheels in maximum tune) without much drama... So as long as you have a competent tune, you should be fine!

[Emre]

Funny how the benchmark is rising... You want 350kw at the wheels now hey...? Don't worry, it's all natural.

1- I have an 044 in tank, i was led to believe it was a much better option than the Nismo or Apexi alternatives.

2- Unless you are thinking about track days, an oil cooler could be perceived as unnecessary at this point. If you were thinking about track days, you'll need a bit more than an oil cooler only. Syntethic oils of today are quite capable of doing their job at the temperatures 130 C.

3- I am still running the factory intercooler and having very good results with it. I have 340kw on pump fuel and had power readings of high 300kw on race fuel. A car with similar mods to mine but with an aftermarket cooler did not have extra power on the same dyno.

4- I have a custom made oil catch can that replaces the windscreen washer bottle.

5- I have the HKS ones but can not tell you how much my car benefits from them. As they came part of the package, i didn't run stock dump pipes with 2530's.

[rb26dett]

hey a few suggestions to throw your way.

1. turbos...instead of the 2530s, try their GT-RS turbos. they're much better than the 2530s, from what hks says...less laggy more power.

2. oil cooler...i've got the trust 10 row one on my car...it keeps oil temps down pretty well, but when you're doing laps, i think you'd find that the oil temp is still going to rise. you should be better off with the 16 row cooler, although it's more work to fit it with remote oil filter n all.

3. bigger intercooler is always good...i always say go overkill on this cos you might wanna do a power upgrade sometime in the future, which means bigger turbos n bigger boost so instead of having to keep buying stuff do it in one hit. some might argue that too big an intercooler will give more lag n all, but when u wack on the big turbos, you'd need a bigger intercooler anyways.

4. dump pipes...if u're looking for the longest separate wastegate pipe running along the dump, you'd have to go trust. their pipes run alongside each other to the cat, which means the dump and front pipe would be a single pipe. another thing i have to note is that front pipes on the BCNR33 and BNR34 are of different design so i don't think it matters if you bought something good for the 33, you'd still have to get another for the 34.

5. cams...not too sure if the step 1 requires minor internal work, such as valve springs and retainers, but i think it'd be a good thing to get those done as well?? all manufacturers sell them as a complete kit which would be dearer than just the cams alone, but if u're going to do something, then do it right.

lastly, if you're looking to do track work with ur car, i'd recommend getting a proper baffle sump and maybe an oil pump as well. the oil pump is not necessary as the stock one's fairly good, but i just wacked on the trust one to keep the oil pressure high n healthy.

the oil sump is a problem, in some people's opinions, but others say that the GTRs come with a good enough baffle. but if the engine blows, it's gonna be a 10k bill, so i spent that few hundreds more n wacked on a trust one. comes with fins too to speed up cooling.

[benjiman74]

With respect to point 1 has anyone had much success with the gt-rs's yet. From reading ozgtr97v thread he wasn't impressed with the response vs power they produced - 1 bar wasn't produced till 5,000rpm. at 1 bar he made 250rwkw and 1.4bar 300kw. 2530's seem to be the proven performer.

[ph1]

Few points;

1. Tried the nismo pump in mine, ended up going with the 044 in tank.

3. I have the Trust 600x300x115 cooler, but it needed about 10mm to be shaved off the inside of the bumper, no modifications were needed to the structural support. Add an extra 10 mins jigsaw/sanding to the fitting time, no drama really.

[rb26dett]

hey ben...i think u'd need pretty aggressive cams to make the most of these turbos...n they're rated at 420ps each, so i think u should have a bigger number than 300kw with the right setup.

[benjiman74]

rb26dett - Agreed but meshmesh made no mention of touching internals so maybe gt-rs's are not suited to his application.

[markr34gtr]

you should look at the trust long bypass type dumps with front pipe all in one...

i have seen one in front of me and it is a work of art....

the bypass pipe is about 400mmlong the hks one is about 150mm.... the longer the better..

it works out cheaper to get the trust set than to get the hks split dumps and front pipe...

the nismo fuel pump fits in with no mods about 500bucks...not worth modding a 044 for 100bucks....saving...

i have 2530;s they are great... make 350rwks at 1.5 to 1.6 bar boost and a good tune...

cheers..

[rb26dett]

ben...u'd find that with the GT2530s as well u'd need a decent set of cams to make good power. no good doing one without the other as all these things go hand in hand, not to mention injectors and better afms.

mark...yea i've mentioned the trust dump/front pipe. i think that pipe's the best dump/front on the market at the moment, but i have no complains with my hks ones.

[benjiman74]

rb26dett - Yes i agree that with either turbo setup upgraded cams and injectors will enhance their full potential. Back to my original point who has seen benefits from gt-rs over 2530's (same level of other mods)? Remember meshmesh has stated he already has 2530's and sard injectors, is it worth buying another set of turbos (gt-rs's) and venturing into unproven territory? Should we believe everything HKS state in their latest catalogue or base our judgements on proven combinations?

[rb26dett]

back from where i come, the Evos and Wrxs are running GT-RS in the local rally. they are reportedly producing upwards of 400hp with the single turbo setup.

not much has been done into researching this turbo in australia, i personally will not believe stuff until i have seen them, maybe u could ask rezz regarding this turbo's popularity in japan??

i'm not saying meshmesh should go out and buy a set of them...i neglected to read the first post properly...thus my suggestion of the GT-RS.

[Gav]

I'm also interested in people's recommendations for cam specs.

Before I did a big end bearing, I was quite impressed with the HKS 25/40s that I fitted. These used std cams but had adjustable sprockets to bring on boost earlier. Full boost was only around 500 rpm later than std terbs.

I'm thinking of using 272 specs (step 1 IN, step 2 EX) along with some head porting to really bring on the larger terbs. Also doing aftermarket rods and forgies to lift the readline and broaden the torque curve.

Thoughts?

[meshmesh]

Guys,

Ive just ordered my SARD 700 injector, waiting for the Bosch 044, But will I need an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?