Should A 300km Per Hour

[Duncan]

actually....I think time attack should adopt the CAMS supersprint regs - afterall it is a cams supersprint! These regs allow for type 5 already for cars which are above sports sedan spec like Duncan's R35.

Protecting existing entrants is about the best way to become irrelevent as your potential entrants change. AASA are havnig a field day with this in racing and no doubt that will reflect on sprints in the future too.

BTW while we are changing rules - I reckon the sooner NSW adopts the QLD distinction between "sprint" (ie best timed lap) and "supersprint" (best total time for 3 laps from a standing start) the better. It is indeed an excellent step between sprinting and racing, and would reduce the incidence of cars being developed for single flying laps only, allowing them to be more versitile and encouraging their owners to enter other types of events.

[hrd-hr30]

Like I said earlier, it would be better if they adopted time attack style classes with RWD, FWD, AWD, TURBO, N/A as well as engine capacity.

Plus I agree with Stuart and Duncan about the lack of consistency across different states and competitions. CAMS is a national governing body isn't it?, why then is there different rules for different states?

That only works for Superlap because they don't allow open wheelers, clubman type vehicles, or CAMS 2A style sports cars etc. You need to seperate the Clubmans from proper full bodied production cars. It really is no contest.

I don't see the need to seperate RWD and FWD. Neither is conclusively better than the other on racetracks. The real distinction between 2WD and AWD. AWD is a distinct advantage.

This would be my suggestion:

Our AASA sprint classes up here are very, very simple. Road 4, Road 6, Road 8 and Race.

You have to be road registered and using road legal tyres to be in the road categories. Anything unreg or on slicks goes into Race category. The numbers denote number of cylinders. Turbos go up one category, so a Turbo 4cyl is in Road 6.

Rotaries are classified as Road 6, which means turbo rotors are Road 8.

The only thing you might want to do is maybe apply some modification limits as seperate classes within those categories. Eg Road 4 Limited Modified, Road 4 Modified etc. Sort of stealing Targa's idea. That might help keep the old-school supporters of the Type classes somewhat happy... You could also use Targa's list of factory high performance vehicles that go into MS even if they're stock, and push modified examples of them up to Race instead of Road classification.

Add a category for kits cars/clubmans/2A sports cars as you have already in NSW (which is a really good idea) and maybe expand it to include other seriously modified light sports cars - eg if you have a sub 1000kg sports car with both an engine swap and supercharging device (incl turbo), like the supercharged Honda powered Elises or turbo SR20 MX5, as random examples lol!

Maybe add a Road AWD category, or just include a trophy for fastest 2WD???

And do something within the Race category to break it down a bit. Over and Under 2L for example?

You'd end up with:

Road 4 LMS & Road 4 MS

Road 6 LMS & Road 6 MS

Road 8 LMS & Road 8 MS

Road AWD LMS & Road AWD MS

Clubman/kit car U2L & O2L

Race U2L & O2L

[Beer Baron]

sounds pretty reasonable to me mate.

[NISMO]

Thread of the year guys, awesome read getting different peoples perspectives.

[FineLine]

actually....I think time attack should adopt the CAMS supersprint regs - afterall it is a cams supersprint! These regs allow for type 5 already for cars which are above sports sedan spec like Duncan's R35.

Protecting existing entrants is about the best way to become irrelevent as your potential entrants change. AASA are havnig a field day with this in racing and no doubt that will reflect on sprints in the future too.

BTW while we are changing rules - I reckon the sooner NSW adopts the QLD distinction between "sprint" (ie best timed lap) and "supersprint" (best total time for 3 laps from a standing start) the better. It is indeed an excellent step between sprinting and racing, and would reduce the incidence of cars being developed for single flying laps only, allowing them to be more versitile and encouraging their owners to enter other types of events.

That depends on what you call time attack. If You're referring to superlap then sure, but remember the only reason they are using cams is because eastern creek wont allow them to use the track under any other governing body's rules.

The time attack we ue use at qr and lakeside has nothing to do with cams and has no agenda's. run what you brung and just enjoy yourself. How hard is that.

[hrd-hr30]

but they're just track days Noel. These guys are talking about the NSW & Australian SuperSprint Championships. Even though its just club level, the guys who enter this are going for the competition as much as they are interested in their own times and having fun going flat out around a race track. People want to have competitive classes of relatively similar vehicles they can enter.

Edited December 1, 2010 by hrd-hr30

[FineLine]

Do Cams do time attack Harry ?

[hrd-hr30]

That depends on what you call time attack Time Attack is just a new-fangled name for Sprints.

[FineLine]

That depends on what you call time attack Time Attack is just a new-fangled name for Sprints.

its a bit deeper than that harry. Time attack is a new fangled name for sprints that generally exclude cams from the equation for all the above mentioned reasons.

My reply was directed at Duncs reference to time attack stepping in to line with cams rules. Wont happen. the whole idea was to move away from their draconian ideas.

[fatz]

That depends on what you call time attack Time Attack is just a new-fangled name for Sprints.

lol

i though it was "grip" driving

lol

[FineLine]

lol

i though it was "grip" driving

lol

Your grips gone purple Fatz. Too tight man.

[nismoman]

but they're just track days Noel. These guys are talking about the NSW & Australian SuperSprint Championships. Even though its just club level, the guys who enter this are going for the competition as much as they are interested in their own times and having fun going flat out around a race track. People want to have competitive classes of relatively similar vehicles they can enter.

^^ Yep spot on Harry. I love having a fang, but most importantly it's about the competition with similiar spec cars.

[djr81]

its a bit deeper than that harry. Time attack is a new fangled name for sprints that generally exclude cams from the equation for all the above mentioned reasons.

My reply was directed at Duncs reference to time attack stepping in to line with cams rules. Wont happen. the whole idea was to move away from their draconian ideas.

For what it is worth:

In WA the CAMS sanctioned sprint series has a completely different slass structure to that talked about here. It is a championship series too. The people running it are progressive too for that matter.

See www.speedeventseries.com if you are interested.

Mostly the term time attack is used by people who heard about it on a DVD they got with a Fast Fours mag & who do not understand that this sort of nonsense (ie sprints) has been going on for years.

[fatz]

i do have uncanny strength in my right hand

[FineLine]

^^ Yep spot on Harry. I love having a fang, but most importantly it's about the competition with similiar spec cars.

HUH! Isnt that the crux of this whole thread? There is no competition between similarly specced cars, Particularly if you drive an import.

[Duncan]

lol I thought this thread was about running slicks with no cage?

And FWIW when I said Time Attack I was thinking "World Time Attack Challenge". QLD has a particular issue since Morgan Park is the only CAMS track left......

One other thing I'd like to know....a couple of people have made a distinction about "Race" cars as though they are inherantly faster than a street car. In my experience a log booked race car is likely to be less modified and heavier (cage etc) than the average road car that turns up to a sprint - so why make the distinction?

Common regs should be common regs. A car should not be allowed more (or less) mods because it happens to have a number plate.

[FineLine]

For what it is worth:

In WA the CAMS sanctioned sprint series has a completely different slass structure to that talked about here. It is a championship series too. The people running it are progressive too for that matter.

See www.speedeventseries.com if you are interested.

Mostly the term time attack is used by people who heard about it on a DVD they got with a Fast Fours mag & who do not understand that this sort of nonsense (ie sprints) has been going on for years.

Bullshit. most people got in to it because it was a squillion times easier than jumping through cams hoops.

If the governing body's had any brains at all and did set classes up a bit more fairly and time attack could become their best source by far of new people in to the sport. Instead it goes one of 2 ways

A. People try and get involved via cams and realise its too damn hard so turn to time attack

B. People get in to time attack and try to move on but refuse for the same reasons so stay with time attack.

I can only speak for our lakie/qr time attack fraternity but 90% of them fit either of these criteria. Most would love to spread their wings but its just too hard.

[djr81]

Bullshit. most people got in to it because it was a squillion times easier than jumping through cams hoops.

If the governing body's had any brains at all and did set classes up a bit more fairly and time attack could become their best source by far of new people in to the sport. Instead it goes one of 2 ways

A. People try and get involved via cams and realise its too damn hard so turn to time attack

B. People get in to time attack and try to move on but refuse for the same reasons so stay with time attack.

I can only speak for our lakie/qr time attack fraternity but 90% of them fit either of these criteria. Most would love to spread their wings but its just too hard.

Well my experience is completely the opposite. The CAMS speed series over here brings heaps of new people into the sport & basically allows people to run whatever they like. So it is both easy to get into & sanctions by CAMS. Last year some 300+ individuals entered one or more of our events.

A great many people move on to racing. For that matter many entrants do sprints etc because they no longer have the time or inclination to run full blown race meetings. Some people do both. Some people (like me) enjoy it for what it is.

The problem I have with most "time attack" class structures is that it forces you to run on sht tyres.

[FineLine]

Well my experience is completely the opposite. The CAMS speed series over here brings heaps of new people into the sport & basically allows people to run whatever they like. So it is both easy to get into & sanctions by CAMS. Last year some 300+ individuals entered one or more of our events.

A great many people move on to racing. For that matter many entrants do sprints etc because they no longer have the time or inclination to run full blown race meetings. Some people do both. Some people (like me) enjoy it for what it is.

The problem I have with most "time attack" class structures is that it forces you to run on sht tyres.

Must be a geographical thing, or as Duncan alluded to, we have far less cams tracks here than non cams. I dont excactly view quality semi's as shit tyres either. Did you not see what fully prepped (non cams compliant) cars did on that shit rubber at superlap this year.

[djr81]

Must be a geographical thing, or as Duncan alluded to, we have far less cams tracks here than non cams. I dont excactly view quality semi's as shit tyres either. Did you not see what fully prepped (non cams compliant) cars did on that shit rubber at superlap this year.

We have precisely two tracks over here. Both CAMS.

Sorry I didn't explain myself re tyres. I was trying to reference rules that prohibit the use of R comp tyres & force you to use harder more road biased stuff. Which don't work well nor last well.

Edited December 1, 2010 by djr81