Forged Rb25det Build

[oscillo hero]

Hi guys i have an awd 97 stagea with the rb25det. it had an issue with a blocked boost controller. it was free spooling the stock turbo to approx 30 psi for about a week before i noticed. as a result it started blowing smoke Real bad when warmed up and under load (running on 8 psi of boost). the turbo is fine surprisingly, however i now have low compression in cylinder 1 (110psi) all others are between 140-150psi. i have had a leak down test done which shows no issues with the head. i am eventually wanting to do up the outer parts of the motor but for now am wanting to build a strong foundation to be able to deliver 350-400 hp at the wheels with no engine faults.

im looking at a bore on the block

forged pistons

forged rods

race bearings

new oil pump

new water pump

timing belt/pulleys

new cams etc

rebuilt head

rb 26 crank

steel head gasket/new head bolts

bigger oil pan

i have found a site for a mob that do rebuilds and they have one they do for 10 grand, am wanting to know if they are reputable and if that is a fair price for the work they offer.

link as follows http://www.lewisengines.com.au/category9_1.htm

[jangles]

edited

.......................de ja vu?

Edited November 10, 2010 by jangles

[R31Nismoid]

nice long list of parts, 1/2 of them aren't needed.

read the thread directly below this, basically the same point... factory motors will do that just fine.

dropping 10k for 280rwkw or so is silly. you could have 4 2nd hand ones for that price.

[oscillo hero]

im just unsure as to whether there is any difference between the awd and rwd rb25 as the bottom of the motor has the front wheel drive through it, so would you just be able to bolt the current oil pan etc to a rb built for a 2wd? i,e the blocks are the same? i am looking at the basic rebuild also which would leave another 5-6 grand for things like the ecu,injectors, fuel pump. thoughts

[oscillo hero]

how much power would an extensive build like that be able to handle? the site there says about 340rwkw=455rwhp, but i want it at all four wheels, would it require a stronger build if it has to power the 2 tonne tank at all four?

[DR 32R]

im just unsure as to whether there is any difference between the awd and rwd rb25 as the bottom of the motor has the front wheel drive through it, so would you just be able to bolt the current oil pan etc to a rb built for a 2wd? i,e the blocks are the same? i am looking at the basic rebuild also which would leave another 5-6 grand for things like the ecu,injectors, fuel pump. thoughts

All wheel drive blocks are different. Bolt pattern to all wheel drive sump is different. So you have to source an awd replacement, or rebuild your own. If you get an awd replacement, it may well transplant whole, block and sump. make sure the diff ratios front and rear end up the same in awd! There is a lot of advocating for stock engines at the moment. I don't think rebuilding with forged pistons, (1k locally) and gtr rods, is overkill. There are usa order forged rods and pistons rb deals for 1k on line.

Edited November 10, 2010 by WHITE gtt

[oscillo hero]

Thanks for the info on the different blocks. i wanna keep the awd so i will probably opt for rebuilding the current motor as opposed to replacing it. As i was saying i want a reliable solid motor. i would like to keep the car for a long time as its a good family car and swapping motors is a pain in the cock. still i would like to know if anyone has any feedback on lewis engines. Good or Bad

[DR 32R]

Isn't Emerald in Queensland? I thought their might be someone more local. I found Darren Lewis reasonable to talk to. It's just that he won't be there at start up. If you find Nissan RB builders over the top, sometimes the VL rb30 commodore mechanics are OK.

[XxNinjaxX]

take my advice on this, my first thoughts were much like yours, if you plan to build this motor and want 300>400hp rebuild it to near standard spec, forging it will make it less reliable in the long run.

block hone (bore depending if it needs or not)

new standard pistons (be sure the grades are correct)

new standard rings

full head recon

arp main studs

arp head studs

stock bearings (once again be sure your grades are correct)

extended oil drive collar

stock camshafts (or poncams)

adjustable exhaust cam gear (quicker spool up)

bigger injectors (s15=cheap 470cc direct replacement)

upgraded fuel pump

standard oil pump (or n1 but do your homework, they are prone to failure)

standard water pump (N1 not ideal for street car, its less effective at lower rev's)

that should make 350 happily.

[R31Nismoid]

All of that, whilst good, is a waste of money.

A factory standard motor will do that day in, day out.

Just the usual supporting mods.

[jangles]

take my advice on this, my first thoughts were much like yours, if you plan to build this motor and want 300>400hp rebuild it to near standard spec, forging it will make it less reliable in the long run.

block hone (bore depending if it needs or not)

new standard pistons (be sure the grades are correct)

new standard rings

full head recon

arp main studs

arp head studs

stock bearings (once again be sure your grades are correct)

extended oil drive collar

stock camshafts (or poncams)

adjustable exhaust cam gear (quicker spool up)

bigger injectors (s15=cheap 470cc direct replacement)

upgraded fuel pump

standard oil pump (or n1 but do your homework, they are prone to failure)

standard water pump (N1 not ideal for street car, its less effective at lower rev's)

that should make 350 happily.

nope, no i wouldnt

[XxNinjaxX]

nope, no i wouldnt

well good on you mate, how about you do something constructive instead of criticising me. im only trying to pass on what ive been told other than "buy a 2nd hand motor" im sure if he was intending to, he wouldnt of created this post.

[jangles]

well good on you mate, how about you do something constructive instead of criticising me. im only trying to pass on what ive been told other than "buy a 2nd hand motor" im sure if he was intending to, he wouldnt of created this post.

firstly, im not your mate, secondly, this is straight out of your thread,a post of yours i edited for you that was completely ignored...

QUOTE (XxNinjaxX @ 10 Nov 2010, 02:01 AM) i do understand a 2nd hand motor would be alot easier, cheaper and quicker than a build but although the standard motor is capable of handling over my target power level happily i'd still prefer to do a build and make it just that little bit stronger for my piece of mind and just the general satisfaction i would have from building it. even if it does blow up at least i gave it a crack which im sure is more than some of the more cashed up members on here could say for themselves.. fair enough if you can afford to pay for your engine to be built by a workshop but from my p.o.v i'd much rather give it a go and learn from my possible mistakes, the build is going to be almost standard with a few upgraded bits here and there, call me stupid and say im spending money on unnessisary items but for me i really dont see the point in a build or even a secondhand motor if it was just going to be completely standard again. i say if you going to take the time to build a motor or swap one out why not make the most of it and improve it atleast a little at the very least?

what im thinking now:

adjustible cam gears

gates timing belt

poncams

standard rods (recon'd)

standard pistons (new with new rings)could get forged for similar price??

N1 oil pump (or standard?, probally no need for n1 at 300>350hp)

N1 water pump (same as above, only effective at higher rpm anyway, opinons?)

power fc

s15 470cc injectors

recon'd head

ballanced bottom end

ARP head studs

ARP main studs

ACL Main bearings

ACL Rod bearings

Lightened flywheel

R34 turbo (op-6 rear housing, possible highflow)highflow can be up to 300kw

IF you want to build it yourself for the experience, just get new rings and bearings, gaskets belt etc.

unless youre going to search for some sort of power above what stock can produce for years then dont waste your money!

stock bolts have been proven for FAR greater power levels many times.

Once completed put it in your car, then you can Rebuild the current one with better parts seeing as you'll now you have more experience and know how because youve already built one...

Edited November 14, 2010 by jangles

[DR 32R]

Stagea rb 25det imports are rarer from my searching of importers of engines or front cuts. It is the all wheel drive engine availability, that will impact on him. There are many more stock rear wheel drives. in rb25det. I live in a sad Australia, that trade skills are so low and disreputable, according to this forum, that no one can be trusted to rebuild the bottom end of a double over head cam straight six!

[oscillo hero]

yeah emerald is in qld, the local bloke quoted 10,500 for a stock rebuild with no allowance for oil pump and water pump or a crank, with me removing and installing the motor. he has never done an rb motor so i turned and ran away. the next closest is 300km away with them doing all work and stock oil pump and water pump at around 11,000 including the freight, they've done a few rb's. it will cost me 300 each way to freight to lewis engines which is bugger all in the long run and they seem to work out cheaper in the end. if you think that motor is more suited to 500hp that would suit me even more as i was being tame with my desired power. i do thrash the hell outa my cars. in future will be looking at bigger turbo,injectors,fuel pump,computer,intercooler,intake plenum etc.

[KiwiRS4T]

If you plan to keep the car for many years and have $10k plus to spend get an RB30 from Rips http://www.ripsltd.com/ for example:

RB30 Stock internal bottom ends, with RIPS modifications, fully refreshed NZD$3,500 rwd or $4,750 4wd including adapter plate kit (suit up to 600hp and 7200 rpm) which is half the price of the rebuilt engine quote you got above

or search the RB30 threads for a reliable aussie builder. The extra torque will make your Stagea pull away hard from idle and depending on what you ask for it will support 300-350awkw easily (or more if you're keen and rich). You will need a decent front mount and turbo etc as well as an e-manage or chipped ecu or better still get a GTR box and a Link computer. Its better to think where you want to go rather than go through various stages incurring more expense at every point (like I did!).

Don't forget to budget for GTT brakes (or better) and some decent suspension. Read the Stagea section and do a search for Duncans RB30 powered Stagea.

If you decide to go for the RB30 PM me and I will give you the full details for my (almost finished) RB30 build.

[JE-R33GTS-T]

I just did mine and SpoolImports.com RB Rebuild Kits great value and Brad has given me great service throughout

[blind_elk]

I had to rebuild mine after I smashed the rings in #2.

I had a 1mm o/s bore, crank / flywheel / clutch balanced, ACL bearings, custom pistons (from Aust Precision Engine Parts, Wantirna, Vic). Got a "mate's rates" assembly, all for about $6k.

You need to be careful about fitting forged pistons. The pistons need to run hot, otherwise you are risking them not expanding enough to give a good seal around the rings and thus burning oil.

And I'm pretty sure it has been stated in a squillion and one threads that the AWD sump does not just bolt up to the RWD block!