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Garrett Medium Frame Gtx Turbos

SimonR32

By SimonR32,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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Rolls Grand Master

Rolls

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It was more of a "that's the way the turbo s, we will see if can gears help. But it wont shave too much" can sub par actuators display issues like I'm seeing? Lazy boost response etc?

If you are in VIC go see STATUS, he will sort you out.

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whatsisname
whatsisname

Polished up pretty good if I do say so myself [emoji4]

FineLine
FineLine

Who gives a toss how it looks if it meets the performace criteria. I hope they wax garretts arse to the point where garrett actually starts doing some real r&d and giving customers something bette

whatsisname
whatsisname

The GTX3584RS will support roughly 850-880HP on a 3.0L (maximum rpm of ~7500-8000) at a PR of about 3.1-3.3 No chance of getting 1000HP out of it, not unless it can be done at a PR of 2.75 and even th

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ShiftyTys Rising Star

ShiftyTys

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I know all dynos are different. But it FEELS like.it builds and should be coming in like 500 or so rpm less. I know the.guys at avo very well. On a personal level. And they wouldn't intentionally take me.for a ride. I might have a chat to status. Because I don't want my dyno sheet to look nice. I want it to FEEL better driving. Avo can make my synopsis look.nice if they want as you all know just fiddling with ramp rates etc.

I had a thought regarding this - ShiftTys, how does the car actually drive from your perspective? Does it seem that laggy?? If you put it in 4th at say 2500rpm and floor it, what rpm does it reach say 7psi, then 15psi (if its not too dangerous to do that)?

Were you present for any of the dyno runs? Looking at those plots, it makes me wonder if there was a very quick sweep rate used - like 6s or quicker for a run? Thats potentially too quick to give an equal comparison to most dyno plots out there, and potentially too quick to replicate what you might experience in the real world.

I'm.bout to drive it. Dyno was done in 3rd. Should.I try 3rd?

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ShiftyTys Rising Star

ShiftyTys

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Ok. 3rd. Foot to floor from 2500. 5psi at approximately 3100. 10psi at approximately 35-3600. Didn't go further. This is according to my gizzmo. Hmm. very different to what dyno says.

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Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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That sounds better... to explain what I mean, it doesn't matter really what gear the dyno is done in - what matters is how fast the dyno allows the car to go through the rev range. The more time the car spends going through the rpm, the more time the turbo gets time to build boost.

If they have a 6 second sweep starting from 2000rpm to 7500rpm it might be a bit more like starting in 2nd gear, if they have a 14second one it might be more like doing it in 4th - just plucking numbers off the top of my head to explain what I mean.

Here's a video I made ages ago of a normal GT3076R .82a/r with internal gate back before my car was fully tuned, maybe try and compare the same kinds of pulls with your own to get an idea:

I would expect it to be SIMILAR (give or take) to what I had there, if its substantially laggier than that then I'd be looking at the overall setup.

I'd expect in 4th gear you should be able to make full boost by 4000rpm on the road. If that all works, there is no problem - the dyno run was probably done with a really fast sweep and will make any car on it look laggier than you'd experience on the road, and also a pretty unflattering impression of how the car goes relative to others. Perfect example of how dyno plots are only part of the picture...

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ShiftyTys Rising Star

ShiftyTys

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That sounds better... to explain what I mean, it doesn't matter really what gear the dyno is done in - what matters is how fast the dyno allows the car to go through the rev range. The more time the car spends going through the rpm, the more time the turbo gets time to build boost.

If they have a 6 second sweep starting from 2000rpm to 7500rpm it might be a bit more like starting in 2nd gear, if they have a 14second one it might be more like doing it in 4th - just plucking numbers off the top of my head to explain what I mean.

Here's a video I made ages ago of a normal GT3076R .82a/r with internal gate back before my car was fully tuned, maybe try and compare the same kinds of pulls with your own to get an idea:

I would expect it to be SIMILAR (give or take) to what I had there, if its substantially laggier than that then I'd be looking at the overall setup.

I'd expect in 4th gear you should be able to make full boost by 4000rpm on the road. If that all works, there is no problem - the dyno run was probably done with a really fast sweep and will make any car on it look laggier than you'd experience on the road, and also a pretty unflattering impression of how the car goes relative to others. Perfect example of how dyno plots are only part of the picture...

So if I'm hitting say 17 or so psi by say 4100. That would be reasonable?

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Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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17psi by 4100rpm in 4th? In 4th thats not as bad as the dyno looks but not that flash imho, in 3rd I would say reasonable. Do you have VCT engaging? When does it reach 14psi? (to rule out a lazy actuator)

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scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

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So if I'm hitting say 17 or so psi by say 4100. That would be reasonable?

It looks reasonable to me for a 640hp capable turbo. I doubt you would get a GT35 on boost that early. I just think you are strangling the exhaust with the small housing, I would have gone the .82 or bigger with an external gate. Its like putting a .63 rear on a GT35, its no good for top end so why go so big in the first place.

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The Mafia Grand Master

The Mafia

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Posted (edited)

So if I'm hitting say 17 or so psi by say 4100. That would be reasonable?

Not to me - My GT3076, made 18psi at 3100rpm, on a rock stock RB25.

Ok. 3rd. Foot to floor from 2500. 5psi at approximately 3100. 10psi at approximately 35-3600. Didn't go further. This is according to my gizzmo. Hmm. very different to what dyno says.

Dude! Please read my comment above.

Get Trent tohave a look mate... A second opinion never hurts

Please do this before you go changing the turbo, it will only cost you about $100. f**k, I'll donate $10 to the cause, just because I want to know if these turbos really are lazy. Is money an issue? I'm sure others will help. I'm willing to help out this time around.

Please be smart about this and make sure you are 100% certain its the turbo.

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ShiftyTys Rising Star

ShiftyTys

Posted
Posted

Get Trent tohave a look mate... A second opinion never hurts

I've already sent Trent a text. Waiting for a reply. What so max boost in 3rd. By just over 4k is.not bad? Ill Suss on the streets later.

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ShiftyTys Rising Star

ShiftyTys

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It looks reasonable to me for a 640hp capable turbo. I doubt you would get a GT35 on boost that early. I just think you are strangling the exhaust with the small housing, I would have gone the .82 or bigger with an external gate. Its like putting a .63 rear on a GT35, its no good for top end so why go so big in the first place.

I do have. 82......

Is it only running a .63 hotside? Fwiw I've been in an R33 running a .82a/r GT3582R which would reach 20psi by ~4300rpm...

Running. 82 NOT. 63

Not to me - My GT3076, made 18psi at 3100rpm, on a rock stock RB25.

Dude! Please read my comment above.

Please do this before you go changing the turbo, it will only cost you about $100. f**k, I'll donate $10 to the cause, just because I want to know if these turbos really are lazy. Is money an issue? I'm sure others will help. I'm willing to help out this time around.

Please be smart about this and make sure you are 100% certain its the turbo.

I will get Trent to look at it. Money is an issue. It.cost me.a.bit to get this all set up as it is.

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Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

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I've already sent Trent a text. Waiting for a reply. What so max boost in 3rd. By just over 4k is.not bad? Ill Suss on the streets later.

As per my video I posted, mine is 15psi by around 3800rpm in 3rd or by 3500rpm in 4th so it makes it maybe slightly laggier than an equivalent GT3076R which isn't too surprising

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ShiftyTys Rising Star

ShiftyTys

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I'm merging them. Makes it far easier to follow/read, dw about it.

Was gonna say that is an AWESOMEA FORUM FEATURE! automated msg combining. Lol

As per my video I posted, mine is 15psi by around 3800rpm in 3rd or by 3500rpm in 4th so it makes it maybe slightly laggier than an equivalent GT3076R which isn't too surprising

Ok well ill see where my Max boost hits.

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The Mafia Grand Master

The Mafia

Posted
Posted (edited)

I do have. 82......

Running. 82 NOT. 63

I will get Trent to look at it. Money is an issue. It.cost me.a.bit to get this all set up as it is.

Everyone, I am interested in seeing if this turbo really is a bit of a lag monster, or this fella has just set it up wrong. I am willing to put in $10 towards his dyno time with Trent.

If we do this properly, I'll gather the cash and send it directly to where he takes it (Trent from Mercury, or am I on another planet?) This way, its fairly legit. Plus, I ran a $5k group buy a few years back, and made a lot of friends, so you can trust me. Plus, its only about $100 or so.

Anyway, I am happy tpo help out. Its also going to save me thousands if I decide to take a risk and end up buying a turbo that is laggy, or not suitable for me.

Anyone keen in helping out this test?

If we go ahead, I want to know A LOT of info about your car mate so Fill in this form for me:

Engine:

Intake Manifold:

Exhaust Manifolf:

Cams:

Compression Test:

Fuel:

Intercooler Size:

Pre intercooler piping size:

Post intercooler piping size:

Full exhaust specs:

Dyno Chart with AFRs plotted:

Full Ignition Map:

Base timing:

Type of ECU:

Anything else I Can think of over the next couple of days

I know thats a lot, and maybe it will take you a while to get the ignition timing down, but hey, if you want a pretty much free diagnosis, work for it, haha.

Fill this out please.

I really want to see this turbo tested properly. I cannot recommend it to people (I'm a tuner, and I get a lot of people asking me what they should buy) if its not what garrett claims.

Thanks, and I hope people are interested.

Edited by The Mafia
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