2011 F1 Thread

[Marlin]

Nicely said and I wholeheartedly agree Ivan.

I also appreciate you leaving Webster out of your list to save another furore

[zebra]

Nicely said and I wholeheartedly agree Ivan.

I also appreciate you leaving Webster out of your list to save another furore

Shouldnt have said that...cause now youve done it!

lol

[Galois]

^ umm you dont know senna very well do ya :]

Never said he was a saint. Though I wish I'd grown up watching senna drive i was too young then to appreciate it. I have seen that video many times though, and that looks a whole lot more like a racing incident than Hungary last year. He was an aggressive driver, but IMO quite different to Schumacher.

Maybe I'm seeing it differently, but schumacher and senna are very different drivers to me, even when they cause crashes.

Also, damn the cars were flimsy then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgWMec_MmMM

Edited May 3, 2011 by Galois

[iamhe77]

Its not that anyone was a more skilled driver, or who punted who of a track whenever

Senna was just better to watch

It is much of the reason why i have grown to really appreciate Hamilton. These guys really know how to make it interesting. Its something guys like Button, Massa, Kimi, Hill, Prost, Mansell... even Alonso i suppose... didnt/dont have.

Theses guys are all great to have in the sport and its sad when they leave. They all bring something different and exciting to race weekends, but its guys like Senna that you everybody really remembers

Agreed. Well said.

Maybe F1 needs to limit down force to that of the 80's cars so we can really see who the better drivers are these days.

*imagines Kobayashi with less grip*

[ctjet]

I think that that word is what makes all the difference. A lot of these guys are great "drivers"

Ayrton was a "racer"

Not a word I would use to describe jenson or sebvet... Our last two champs

[dezz]

There is a big difference between them, Senna never pushed anyone into a wall at near 200 mph like schumacher did last year.

Also never seen schumacher do this.

These days he'd probably be banned from the sport for endangering a life or something ridiculous like that if he stopped on the track and got out of his car...

The videos Ivan posted clearly show him driving straight into his championship contender into turn 1 on the opening lap, in order to take him out of the race and win the championship...That's in cars a shit load less safer than they are these days... Hamilton himself said you could almost elbow through the cockpit, so I'd say a car ramming into it at any speed would be life threatening.

^ umm you dont know senna very well do ya :]

It's ok when Senna does it mate, pull your head in...

Also, damn the cars were flimsy then.

You said it...

[ctjet]

Michael to leave Williams, Coughlin to join

we ever find out what that white powder was in the ferrari fuel tanks? strange that

Edited May 3, 2011 by ctjet

[Galois]

These days he'd probably be banned from the sport for endangering a life or something ridiculous like that if he stopped on the track and got out of his car...

The videos Ivan posted clearly show him driving straight into his championship contender into turn 1 on the opening lap, in order to take him out of the race and win the championship...That's in cars a shit load less safer than they are these days... Hamilton himself said you could almost elbow through the cockpit, so I'd say a car ramming into it at any speed would be life threatening.

Once he'd committed to the gap there wasn't much he could do, Senna had 2 wheels off the track trying to avoid the contact, which combined with getting air on the ripple strip made lose steering. All I've been saying is that, in my opinion, that's a more justified racing incident than what schumacher did, and the two drivers are very different. Some people will always say there is no justification for a crash or a close call, others say that it's just part of racing and the drivers' personalities. The worst of senna's behaviour is slightly comparable to the better of schumacher's controversial moves.

Also when senna pulled over to help a fellow racer it was a more dangerous time, when people died more often. There was a big steam/smoke signal to slow drivers down and senna was hardly parked in the middle of the track. It doesn't look like there was anything but safety dictating his actions.

People's opinions will always vary on this, and have since 1990.

For the record I do think schumacher is a good driver and that many of his victories were great drives, I also think he has done some brutal and shifty things on track that few other drivers would even contemplate, and that any decent driver given #1 status with ferrari from 2000-2004 had a great chance at championship wins.

Meh to each their own

Edited May 3, 2011 by Galois

[lmanion]

I was never a Schumi fan but I think that comment about 2000-2004 is taking quite a lot away from him and his hard work and technical feedback. He was far and away the number one driver in the sport behind the scenes in that time. The reason Ferrari dominated like that was because they were able to spend more money and have Schumi develop the car alongside Ross Brawn and his other staff that moved with him from Benetton.

[PHaT MR30]

Its not that anyone was a more skilled driver, or who punted who of a track whenever

Senna was just better to watch

It is much of the reason why i have grown to really appreciate Hamilton. These guys really know how to make it interesting. Its something guys like Button, Massa, Kimi, Hill, Prost, Mansell... even Alonso i suppose... didnt/dont have.

Theses guys are all great to have in the sport and its sad when they leave. They all bring something different and exciting to race weekends, but its guys like Senna that you everybody really remembers

I think the cars back then were generally more exciting to watch

[zebra]

I was never a Schumi fan but I think that comment about 2000-2004 is taking quite a lot away from him and his hard work and technical feedback. He was far and away the number one driver in the sport behind the scenes in that time. The reason Ferrari dominated like that was because they were able to spend more money and have Schumi develop the car alongside Ross Brawn and his other staff that moved with him from Benetton.

Note the key point there.

[hrd-hr30]

So Senna would never run anyone at the pit wall? This video also shows a sharp contrast to how "unavoidable" the previous Senna Prost turn 1 collision was and how fair Senna's driving was...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zznJjSncGCE

bah, everyone remembers and glorifies Senna because the media does, and has been beating it into them for the past 17years. End of story.

mix that with the nostalgia of the 'good ol days' and he's gone from someone known during his career as a fierce rival for Prost and who really only beat Prost because he'd either crash into him or slam the door to make Prost avoid a crash, to some sort of martyred F1 saint.

Edited May 4, 2011 by hrd-hr30

[hrd-hr30]

Note the key point there.

yeah no one else in F1 spends extravagent amounts of money. more money does not automatically eqaul a winning car, let alone complete dominance. you may have to look a bit depper than that.

[zebra]

yeah no one else in F1 spends extravagent amounts of money. more money does not automatically eqaul a winning car, let alone complete dominance. you may have to look a bit depper than that.

Im not saying its not only reason Harry,

But it certainly would help.

[Nee-san]

Senna, Cobain, same same ?

That's not to take anything away from him, just an observation about peoples perceptions.

[Marlin]

Well, I was a "fan" of Senna when he was racing. I'm old enough to remember it clearly

However, I didn't actually admire "the man", more his ability in the car. Prost was really the only person who could regularly touch him, and yes, Prost was/is an absolute legend in my mind too

However, I just think, and it's only my thoughts, you guys make your own decisions, that Senna just had "something" a little extra that he could find sometimes. No doubt he could also brain snap and do some really stupid things too.

His talks of "outer body experiences" during races I can actually relate to......

Nothing will change the fact that his era was a golden age, insane cars, Prost to fight him etc..... it all started to go pear-shaped when the active chassis cars came in, and a driver of Mansell's talent could win a championship with one arm tied behind his back.

[hrd-hr30]

Im not saying its not only reason Harry,

But it certainly would help.

No, just the most important one. You said it was "the key point" and bolded it in the quote, clearly suggesting it was far more important than the designers, team and drivers mentioned in the same sentence.

[zebra]

Money can buy you the best designers etc is what I was trying to get at.

[hrd-hr30]

strange then that you bolded the money rather than Ross Brawn who was mentioned in the very same sentence.

[Nee-san]

Toyota prove that money alone is not going to get you anywhere.

Regularly outspent each years champion team (substantially I may add) for pretty much every year they were in the competition.