Traction In The Wet

[projectx]

I havent had my v35 very long but long enough to have had a couple of rainy days..

The first time i drove it in the wet, it scared the shit out of me! (in a good way, i love that sideways feeling - just not confident yet because ive owned mostly front wheel drive cars). Is it just me or does the back end go out really easy on these things in the wet? VDC off, the slightest bit of acceleration in a corner and im already drifting.. At 60km/h, try to get to 80km/h (straight line) if you press the accelorator just enough to shift back a gear (i have 5AT), already its starting to spin.. I love it but, im kind of worried about loosing it at the same time..

The main reason for this thread is firstly, is it normal for it to slip so easily?

and secondly, I hate the feeling the VDC correcting the slide, and since it slips so easily, it activates so frequently and feels like crap each time, that it makes you drive like a granny to avoid it activating anyway so it defetes its purpose of having it.

So the options are:

VDC on, try to drive semi/normal but keep getting that discusting feeling everytime VDC activates

VDC on, drive like a grandma to stop it activating

VDC off, drive like a grandma in order to not die

VDC off, die

or

VDC off, drive with confidence and enjoy it because you've had practice/lessons at controlling the drift.

before i go any further my car is completley stock.. I think it may have the original factory tyres with about 40% tread.. (arnt they meant to be changed at compliance?).. Also its in mint condition and drives like a champion in all other conditions..

Id love to organise (for the Perth mob) a day at AHG driving centre or something similar to get used to controlling my car in the wet mainly but also in the dry. I think its better then trying to practice this on the road.. Have you guys ever done this or would you be interested?

cheers

Edited November 16, 2010 by projectx

[Ezy03]

Maybe ur tires mate I have Yokohama advans sports on all four and I rarely loose traction even in the wet, on or off, well I could lose with it off but I don't plant it. Imo I feel like it maybe feels like no loss when in rain or dry maybe 10 % different really good tires I guess, think there expensive compare to others though

[V35_Paul]

Yeah it could all be down to tyres.

[ARTZ]

its real wheel drive , you'll get used to it but go easy or you may find out the hard way what its limits are..

Try driving a trayback ute, even my little old b2600 mazda gutlees car has seen my do a 180 in the wet with near new set of bridgestones, ..on my ps,My stock old gemini could spin 3rd sideways for a 100mtres in the wet..its fun..

Welcome to the joys of RWD, just be careful till you get the hang of it,and if you wish to test its limit make sure there is nothing you can hit..GL

Also ,traction control will not stop you losing it sideways in the wet, no matter how many dumb blonde chicks try to tell you it does..Ive met a few that have insisted their TC was busted because they slid out in the wet.....

[jawrgy]

Totally agree. VDC has saved my ass so many times in the wet. I accelerate going up a small hill in the wet and the ass kicks out. Although VDC didnt kick in then for some reason. It only really works when i take a corner a bit harder than i should =P.

[TUFF_350]

Yea VDC makes a huge diff,

i have 90% tread on my michelin's and even in dry conditions going a little spritely around a corner you feel the computer taking over and that delightful "SLIP" light flashing away

[AlexanderWilde]

1st thing check tyres as they may be winter tyres, harder compounds will make you lose it really easy

2nd VDC is meant to correct or aid you in those situations, to not skid or lose traction ie it will cut power to the wheels or apply a little braking to the wheels to correct the car's position, the VDC will control each wheel independently to correct position when you go sideways

3rd drifting is not recommended on normal every day roads as this is illegal,(and it will get the attention of cops and add to the Skyline driver stigma), 1 mistake and you will plough in another car parked or with people in it, it may be fun but everyone on the road will look at you like (WTF, guy cant control his car in the wet)

4th if the VDC turns on every few seconds in the wet and the tyres are not at fault try going a little easier on the accelerator chanses are your floring it witch you don’t need to do, high power RWD cars lose traction easily so get used to it at the track.

5th try changing the traction button from power to Auto it has 3 options Winter (grandma driving) auto (ok power responsive but harder to lose traction) POWER (great response and great in the dry horror in the wet)

i had a similar impression of the VDC when I first got the car so I used tp turned it off, but the one time i forgot to turn it off it saved my ass big time when an oil patch and rainy day made me spin out on the motorway at 100km i still remember the morbid feeling i had seeing the cement sidewall coming towards me only to stop right next to it

PS if you like drifting take it to the track and use your manual mode to have some fun and get a feel for it

[projectx]

Thanks for the replies..

dont get me wrong VDC definately does its job. I just wish it was a bit more refined. I heard the V36 VDC feels a lot smoother then the V35.. Actually it was a comparison between 350z and 370z but i assume its the same as v35 vs v36..

Ive been thinking.. I know why this car feels different to anything else ive driven in the wet. In the past, the only other 2 rear wheel drive cars ive had is an s14 and an s15.. But they didnt have the low end torque that you get from a V6 so they were much less of a hand full in the wet.. With those cars as long as the turbo doesnt kick in you generally still have traction.

I checked my tyres. They are Bridgestone Potenza's.. I dont think they're winter compound but i might check the pressures in them, could be too high.. Eventually i want to upgrade to wider wheels.. Hopefully that improves traction..

Alexander, I dont plan on doing any drifting on public roads but if something should go wrong it would be nice to have confidence in my ability to correct the problem (should VDC be off). I rarely floor my car in the dry let alone the wet...

Either way im still keen on going to one of these events..

heres a link to the RAC (used to be AHG) driving centre:

http://www.dtec.com.au/mc-motorsport/performance-driving.htm

I havent had a chance to read up on it yet but ill check prices soon and post up. If theres enough interest ill do a separate thread.. Ive been there once years ago (civic days) and its pretty cool... Im hoping they have the ability to wet the skid pan for this particular excercise

[diabolique]

Thanks for the replies..

dont get me wrong VDC definately does its job. I just wish it was a bit more refined. I heard the V36 VDC feels a lot smoother then the V35.. Actually it was a comparison between 350z and 370z but i assume its the same as v35 vs v36..

Ive been thinking.. I know why this car feels different to anything else ive driven in the wet. In the past, the only other 2 rear wheel drive cars ive had is an s14 and an s15.. But they didnt have the low end torque that you get from a V6 so they were much less of a hand full in the wet.. With those cars as long as the turbo doesnt kick in you generally still have traction.

I checked my tyres. They are Bridgestone Potenza's.. I dont think they're winter compound but i might check the pressures in them, could be too high.. Eventually i want to upgrade to wider wheels.. Hopefully that improves traction..

Alexander, I dont plan on doing any drifting on public roads but if something should go wrong it would be nice to have confidence in my ability to correct the problem (should VDC be off). I rarely floor my car in the dry let alone the wet...

Either way im still keen on going to one of these events..

heres a link to the RAC (used to be AHG) driving centre:

http://www.dtec.com.au/mc-motorsport/performance-driving.htm

I havent had a chance to read up on it yet but ill check prices soon and post up. If theres enough interest ill do a separate thread.. Ive been there once years ago (civic days) and its pretty cool... Im hoping they have the ability to wet the skid pan for this particular excercise

In relation to the rear end kicking out in the wet, the car's chassis is setup such that it has a near 50/50 weight balance and such is a lot easier to kick out and control in any conditions, like a few people have said above though, just know the limits (and be mindful of the surroundings) when you're trying it out. I didn't find VDC too instrusive, however, I do see your point and can see where it can be intrusive.

The RAC course sounds great mate. I've had a lot of mates go on it and they say it's a good bit of fun. I'll be keen should you decide to pursue with it. Maybe start an EOI thread for the WA boys and see the response you get, accordingly you can decide whether to go through with it or not.

GL with the drifts

Edited November 17, 2010 by diabolique

[bubba]

OK, I apologise for venturing in to the V area but here goes

First off I would say get some new tyres, I run 595SS's for street duties and find they are a very good $$ v grip solution. They hang on well in the wet and when they let go, it's very progressive.

Secondly, get over to the WA section.. you just missed an RAC (formerly AHG) skidpan day but they are organised regularly. Prices tend to average ~$75 per person and you get an excellent opportunity to put your car through its' paces. Last time I was out, they didn't mind 2nd gear clutch drops and a lot of sideways - as long as you aren't driving like a dickhead, they are reasonably lax.

Don't think they have the facility to wet the skidpan though.

Edited November 17, 2010 by bubba

[fcruz3r]

do u have a manual or an auto trans??

it's strange coz i've got average tyres..but in the wet I only loose traction if going 3/4 to wot peddal off the lights...which in any case shouldn't be done anyway. occasionally it does break traction if rain spreads oil on roads or on turnings where the road is awkardly cambered/uneven

[projectx]

Thanks for all the tips guys,

im spewing i missed that last event i kewdale... I just checked the thread! It was only 2 weeks ago!!

Ill have to make an effort to check into the WA threads from now on and ill be keen to get out there for the next one..

The oily roads probably had a lot to do with it cause the last few times it rained, it was just an odd day or two with weeks of dryness either end so plenty of time to build up oil..

fcruz3r: I have an auto.. 3/4 throttle from stand still in the wet and id be skidding for ages.. even half throttle would skid... and Im talking low revs... even between 2000 or 3000rpm... crazy but awesome fun

At the moment this is a novelty for me since its start of summer and havnt had my car in the rain much.. But im thinking during winter after the 3rd week of constant rain, it might start to get a bit old when your just trying to get from a to b.. ... I'll have to get new wheels and tyres sorted before next rainy season starts i guess..

[180 wanabe]

The other problem is that the Auto Vs have a open diff

Open diff + engine with good low down torque + torque converter multiplying this effect = wheelspin if your a little throttle happy

while I can say that I dont usualy suffer from VDC kicking in unless im at the track "in which case I now turn if off" or trying to do something silly. I have noticed that taking off in the wet can be a pain in the ass

I hope to FINALY have a quaife LSD in my car after almost 2 months of waiting for M%# Garage to get one in for me. A proper LSD should reduce your VDC kicking in in the wet unless your trying to be a hero

[bubba]

What diffs are in these things? Is there a 350Z factory LSD that might fit?

Ditching the open centre and swapping in the old shimmed up factory LSD from the 32 in to my wagon made a phenomal difference. Cheap and extremely effective.

[Touge Kyousou]

In my almost 2 years of V ownership, i haven't had problems with rear end traction..

I would recommend tires or tires/wheels, LSD, and sussy.

My car was hardish to step out sideways - 275 michelin pilot sport ps2 (damn good tire), the manual's viscous lsd, springs/shocks/swaybars.

Check your tire pressures too.. and your wheel alignment incl camber and toe.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Touge Kyousou

[VNS 24]

Like Arthur T3 said, it mainly because of RWD set up.

Mine does the same too, but with stock 17" last spring and haven't driven in the rain since. Also, I would try not to floor it in the rain.

[interfooler]

Tyres make a huge difference in traction. Use good tyres and you won't have a problem. Had been through a set of Bridgestone and Nexen. The Bridgestone just grips where as with the Nexen I still get wheel spin in 3rd..

[R6n350GT]

I have 6MT coupe and with 245 Kumho KU31 on front and 285 on the back, i leave vdc on and the grip in wet is awesome, going through twisty windy roads in rural areas I feel glued to the road even when wet i have pushed to see what i can do and didnt find it wavering at all. These are amazing tires and i guess the massive 285s on the back help. VDC off in the wet and i half accelerate and yeah i go sideways... I leave it on..

[WeezzerR_1405]

What diffs are in these things? Is there a 350Z factory LSD that might fit?

Ditching the open centre and swapping in the old shimmed up factory LSD from the 32 in to my wagon made a phenomal difference. Cheap and extremely effective.

Same question...does a 370z LSD fits a non-sport V36??or VLSD even??

[Oaksey]

As stupid as it may sound, if you get a grounding kit it will make the VDC smoother.

I think most people get it to smooth out the auto but even though I've got a manual myself, I found it to be most worthwhile.