Thoughts On Na Track Car

[No Crust Racing]

Just wondering what people think of NA track cars, I've got a turbo S13 and sometimes I wish I didn't have to deal with boost control or worry about afr's as much or deal with increased under bonnet temps and the like.

Sure there are many pros to forced induction motoring but there are a few cons too.

That got me thinking about what real options people have to go NA. Aside from swapping V8's into smaller cars, which then leads to torque control issues with clutches and diffs etc.

NA Silvia's go like puss from what I've seen, even the last model Autech S15's aren't much chop.

I guess there's a few BMW's that might be alright but parts are probably pricey, likewise something like an S2000, doubt it's cheap to repair/mod.

What do others think and what are people running if you've got a decent NA car that runs respectable times?

I'm referring more to track cars based on road cars and not so much things like open wheelers or purpose built things like Radicals.

Just my random thoughts for the day.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

There are plenty of Civic's, Integra's and Escorts which compete extremely well in there categories. Cheap to race

[No Crust Racing]

RWD would be nice, escort is getting a bit old.

Wonder how you'd go with an S2000 engine in an S14...

What do they make factory 170-180kw or so? So with a bit of work you might get it to crack the 200kw mark, so say 140-150atw's not lightning quick I guess, probably want a lighter donor chassis.

Edited November 17, 2010 by ActionDan

[phunky_monkey]

RWD would be nice, escort is getting a bit old.

Wonder how you'd go with an S2000 engine in an S14...

What do they make factory 170-180kw or so? So with a bit of work you might be it to crack the 200kw mark, so say 140-150atw's not lighting quick I guess, probably want a lighter donor chassis.

Bloody expensive option mate!

I'd just get an S2000 rather than swap the motor into an S14. I'd look at an E36 M3. They can be made to go very quickly, are cheap to buy (though not maintain I'm sure) and obviously handle well. I'd rather an E30/E46. but the 36's are very cheap.

If not I'd look at a civic with an engine conversion or the like. Ultimate choice would be an Elise with a K20A What happened to the GT-R idea?

[Marlin]

Just wondering what people think of NA track cars, I've got a turbo S13 and sometimes I wish I didn't have to deal with boost control or worry about afr's as much or deal with increased under bonnet temps and the like.

Sure there are many pros to forced induction motoring but there are a few cons too.

That got me thinking about what real options people have to go NA. Aside from swapping V8's into smaller cars, which then leads to torque control issues with clutches and diffs etc.

NA Silvia's go like puss from what I've seen, even the last model Autech S15's aren't much chop.

I guess there's a few BMW's that might be alright but parts are probably pricey, likewise something like an S2000, doubt it's cheap to repair/mod.

What do others think and what are people running if you've got a decent NA car that runs respectable times?

I'm referring more to track cars based on road cars and not so much things like open wheelers or purpose built things like Radicals.

Just my random thoughts for the day.

You need to put the cereal box in front of you and read that over breakfast instead of letting such drivvle enter your head.

If you're having temp control issues with your car, well, I'm sorry, but you're doing something seriously wrong! lol A tougher, more reliable, easier to work on, cheaper to maintain, Track Car, is bloody hard to find.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Marlin

[No Crust Racing]

Yeah fair point. M3 parts would be rough I reckon =\ I've always wanted one though

GT-R idea is still alive - problem of course is money and weight - This is just random musings after dealing with annoying turbo specific issues on the S13.

I'm not about to go buy an NA track car just yet lol

[No Crust Racing]

You need to put the cereal box in front of you and read that over breakfast instead of letting such drivvle enter your head.

If you're having temp control issues with your car, well, I'm sorry, but you're doing something seriously wrong! lol

lol!

Nah I'm not having temp control issues, my car is only a 1.8L turbo so my water and oil temps are really good even after lots of thrashing, only added basic just jap oil cooler.

Was just using that as an example of forced induction issue considerations. I know it's an issue for all cars but obviously having a big fat heat soaked turbo doesn't help.

[phunky_monkey]

My car didn't have cooling issues. Low mount turbo is a good idea. Nice radiator, quality fluids and she should be fine mate

[No Crust Racing]

Again, I'm not having cooling issues lol

Was just using that as an example. AFR's and Boost control are two other things that are more important on a turbo car than they are on an NA one, boost obviously lol.

Of course AFR's matter on an NA car also but once they're set they're much more likely to stay happy that on a turbo car from what I've seen.

I'm not having problems with afrs or boost either, just using those as examples of why people might like the idea of NA.

All i was really getting at with this was that given some of the issues I've had to work on with my own car, and we all have issues at some point, NA appeals in some ways due to less complexity and potential points of failure. Then I was just curious if anyone out there is rocking the NA track car idea and if so in what.

I'm not beating on my car just musing

[evil_weevil]

mine goes ok - was 8 seconds off Noddy's lap at morgan park on the weekend - I have 75rwkw

[zebra]

Im building a 351 to throw into an old falcon or something, Carburetted pushrod V8 sounds simple but they are not!

just leave the S13 stockish under the bonnet and play with suspension/brakes, will be quicker than adding another 100hp

[No Crust Racing]

Im building a 351 to through into an old falcon or something, Carburetted pushrod V8 sounds simple but they are not!

just leave the S13 stockish under the bonnet and play with suspension/brakes, will be quicker than adding another 100hp

dunno if I'd wanna go carby lol

yeah that's exactly what I've done. only minor power mods, some boost, exhaust, ic, pod, bit of fuel and that's it. All my time and money has gone into suspension, brakes, tyres etc. I should probably put some time/money into driving lol I'm sure there's 30secs a lapt to be gained there lol

[zebra]

Good stuff, now just drive the shit outta the thing, stock parts are cheap to replace if you pop a motor, no doubt you could buy a complete CA18DET and gearbox for less than a set of Bearings and rings

[No Crust Racing]

We're on the same page I think

"no doubt you could buy a complete CA18DET and gearbox for less than a set of Bearings and rings"

Main reason I haven't gone SR lol

So who is running decent lap times at Winton in NA? Club level that is, not future tourers etc

[evil_weevil]

exactly - more seat time = quicker laps!

[GTS4WD]

There are a handfull of really good NA engines out there that can be dropped into almost any shell. You just need to be a little creative.

4AGE

B16/18

H22A

3SGE

S2000 Motor

SR16/20VE

I had an RB25DE in my 32 and regret taking it out. And I really dont care about how much crap I copped for it.. because it was an EPIC engine. The things I really loved about that engine:

The sound - NA engine's screaming off the heads - You cant beat it.

Relliability - I took the car to about 10 track/drift days + Daily driver + countless twisty road km and it never EVER skipped a beat. Ever.

It would never bite your head off - Not matter what you did, it would never become too much of a handfull. There wasn't more power than skill. It was safe.

I think driving underpowered cars also helps with racecraft. It really teaches you were to look for time in driving technique as opposed to just "running more boost"

You just have to be a little creative in what combination you want to make. A bloke I used to work with had an S2000 motor in a Datto. I thought that was pretty cool

Also, I think with NA cars you really focus on loosing weight because there is so little power. And weight is the devil

[Beer Baron]

dude, power = heat. a powerful NA car is going to cost more money to get it hauling and still put out shit loads of heat and need to be just as well tuned as any turbo car.

try getting 250hp out of a 2litre NA. then try getting 250HP out of a 2 litre turbo and tell me which one is more cranky on track and which is hotter and which is more likely to punch a rod through the block some day, and which one of them needs mega $ rods and pistons etc to keep it alive.

I love NA cars as much as the next bloke but your reasoning for wanting one over your CA turbo is nonsense. sorry but it's true.

if you really just want an NA track car something like weevils gay MX5 is a good idea, or any 90s civic or integra, S2000 engine into an S14 is about the most expensive way on earth to get 180kw into an S14 since they come with 170 standard and an exhaust and boost would get you there with standard everything else. or spend $15K on the S2000 engine conversion..... lol.

[No Crust Racing]

Richard I dont want NA over my CA18DET. Dealing with some turbo issues got me thinking about the NA stuff so I thought it would be a good discussion topic, which it has been, that is all.

I've got as much turbo passion as the next bloke on here, I've had 3 turbo Nissan's so far, and I doubt that'll stop.

I'm not jumping ship and as much as I like the idea of swapping engines around in other cars, the likelihood of me ever doing that is slim to none. I am up there with the best of the budget enthusiasts and base a lot of my choices on bang/buck. Which is why I went CA S13, and not 308 VK commodore or something of the like.

I don't think I can really make it any clearer.

Conversation topic only, not intention to do so.

[nismoman]

exactly - more seat time = quicker laps!

^^My favourite quote at the moment! I've been telling people the same thing!

Off topic, but alot of people get caught up modifying the crap out of their car, when they should be focusing on putting the laps in.

Back on topic, I have considered the same thing Dan.

For fast/fun NA cars there's always the MX5. You compete with others in the same car, so the outright lap time doesn't matter.

Everyone I know who own's an MX5 (including evil!!) always comment on how fuss-free they are maintenance and running wise.

I don't like FWD myself, but you can't ignore the raw pace that a lightweight Honda VTEC NA car can deliver.

Most winners in the lower capacity classes (under 2L) are Honda, Civic, Integra, S2000 etc.

Seems I'm repeating what Baron said!! lol!

Also, when dumhed (on ns.com) owned hello kitty NA S13 Silvia, he was managing 1:09's I think around Wakefield.

Managed around 140rwkw's out of SR20DE. link here: http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.p...;st=0&fcat=

I was thinking a similiar package has potential to win a few class trophies too!

Edited November 18, 2010 by nismoman

[djr81]

So, to summarise:

Again, I'm having cooling issues

I love the next bloke.

If you want quick, cheap NA (without the gheyness) then get a Westie or a clone there of. Any of the motors listed previous work. Hell I have even seen one with a CA18DET. Or a rotary. Or about 58,000 four cylinder combinations.

They are light (hence cheap to run), rwd, competitive & fun. Just make sure you can fit & think long & hard about a IRS widebody version.

Edited November 18, 2010 by djr81