Developments In The Hoon/car Enthusiast Debate

[Iron Chef]

Hi guys,

Some of you may have heard about this already, but last night Isobel Redmond and a number of Shadow ministers held a community meeting in Dernancourt to discuss issues such as hoon driving, graffiti etc etc. Thanks to the power of the internet, a number of young car enthusiasts turned up to voice our opinions about the current status quo with lack of facilities, ineffective driver training, and a whole heap of other stuff. I think even we were surprised at how seriously they took us, and I have to mention that those who spoke did a brilliant job of getting the message across effectively.

Well it got even better - our plight made it into the local press today, which is more than we could ever hope for. I got a call at 6:10am saying get ready for an interview on ABC Radio to supplement a recorded interview I did last night at the hall, but the real reason I want you all to read this is have a look at the discussion with Isobel Redmond! Remember she will most likely be our next Premier after the next election, so all this stuff is very heartening. From the reception they gave us last night, it's early days, but I genuinely believe some changes are going to be made from all this.

Here's the transcript from this morning's radio interviews (I figured there aren't many ABC radio listeners on here haha):

Opposition Leader holds her fourth crime and safety community meeting

Hoon driving legislation was the main topic of discussion at a meeting held by the State Opposition Leader in Dernancourt last night. About 60 people attended the Opposition Leader’s fourth crime and safety community meeting, including a large contingent of young car enthusiasts, who said they’re being unfairly targeted by police.

Opposition Leader Isobel Redmond received loud applause from much of the crowd when she spoke of the Liberal Party’s support for a speedway at Port Adelaide. She says the meeting will be her last in metropolitan Adelaide and she’ll now be working to turn people’s concerns into action:

(891ABC 6.30am/7.45am & 639ABC 7.45am) “Well, we’ll be working on our policy development, of course, as we head towards the next election and this will give us a good sense of what the priorities are and how to go about it. They do invite participation from the community to tell us what they think is the problem and how it best should be resolved.”

Resident and local business owner, Kristian Appelt (phonetic), says many young drivers feel they’re being unfairly targeted by police because of the bad behaviour of a minority:

(891ABC 6am & 639ABC 6am) “A lot of the motoring enthusiasts are quite concerned that the legislation as it currently stands is starting to affect some of the more legitimate cruisers, so they’re quite concerned about some of the developments and feel in some cases that they’re being targeted unnecessarily.”

AAMI’s Mike Sepinski [phonetic] says young drivers driving while under the influence of drugs and alcohol despite warnings from police. He says nearly half admit to driving after a big night out even if they still think they’re drunk said drugs are also a problem:

(CRUISE 6am) “There are many factors that influence how quickly your body both absorbs and expels alcohol, including gender, age, body fat and just how much it is you’ve had to drink.”

(MMM 7am/8.30am) “Ten percent of young drivers admit to using recreational and illicit drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, speed and ecstasy then getting behind the wheel of a car.”

Isobel Redmond, Opposition Leader (891ABC 7.11-7.19) Forum re young driver safety and education

(Denny: …the situation with young drivers … it’s at the fore again … let me just remind you of what … Senior Constable Mick Abbott said to us just before the news …[snr Constable Mick Abbott, audio grab: “We’ve had four deaths on the roads so far this December, all men, all young men under 18 years of age or 18.”] Four deaths in December, all of them young men under the age of 18 and Mick said to us before the news there’s been an arrest because there’s an allegation that yesterday’s double fatality was as a result of drag racing in peak hour traffic on a very busy road. As it happens, hoon legislation has been a significant point of discussion recently for the leader of the Opposition Isobel Redmond and she held a meeting just last night … at which the suggestion of an enclosed car racing circuit came up again which apparently was greeted with much enthusiasm … I don’t profess to be any sort of wowser when it comes to driving good cars because … when I was 18 I had a 1972 HQ Monaro 308 automatic which I adored … at the moment, anyone who is the parent of a young driver would understandably be on edge … but first … Isobel Redmond … I want to ask about this series of meetings and obviously there is a feeling among young drivers that they just need somewhere where they can just be a little reckless, well not reckless … where they can really test the extremities of their car.)

That’s right, and I’d have to say … they were very positive, very respectful and obviously motoring enthusiasts who are passionate about their vehicle and what they see as their sport and certainly the ones there last night were very much of the ilk that they didn’t want to be breaking laws on the roads but they did definitely want somewhere to be able to go, like the motorsport at the port which we supported in the previous election campaign because taking their vehicles up to the track at Tailem Bend is only a sort of bi-monthly basis and costs a lot of money to get their vehicles up there and so on and so that’s … almost out of their pockets for some of them and Mallala is so thoroughly booked there’s sort of very little opportunity there so they see a crying need for something like that motorsport complex which was proposed for Government owned land and at no expense to the Government because there were private people prepared to put up all the money to run it.

(Denny: …if you just take your political hat off just for a second … and throw the hat of a parent on … )

Absolutely, three youngsters who went through driving …

(Denny: …you would have to agree that there is … albeit a small minority, giving young drivers a very bad reputation at the moment and you wouldn’t blame parents, you included, for being nervous about the safety of their children on the roads.)

Absolutely, and there’s no doubt statistically that all around the world, not just in South Australia, but young drivers, and it used to be very much young men but now increasingly young women as well, are more at risk and they’re more at risk particularly in those first few years of driving. One of the things that came out of last night’s forum was a great enthusiasm amongst these young people to have a much more sophisticated driving teaching regime so that you can’t just move from one sort of vehicle to another without actually passing a test to make sure you’re capable and competent of handling that vehicle. They also favoured the idea of having defensive driving skills courses, they favoured the idea of if you’re going to do those you do them in your own car so that you become familiar with the handling of your car and they agree with my observation that often the kids who grow up in the country, grow up with great car handling skills but very little traffic understanding and the converse for the kids who grow up in the city.

(Denny: …these things have happened in the past … when I learnt to drive … it was at the driver training centre at Oaklands Park and it was done through Norwood High School and we were put on a skid pan and we were taught the extremities of cars and we were given defensive driving courses, all of which seem to have disappeared.)

… that’s right and indeed there was a lot of enthusiasm, not just from the young people at this meeting last night, but from the adults there as well for the re-introduction of some driving schools like that and driving courses in schools, but I can tell you … that I paid a lot of money to have my three children trained by different driving instructors because I have the view that I shouldn’t pass on my bad driving habits but I found it extremely frustrating because they were taught so little of car handling, they weren’t taught anything about overtaking on country roads, for instance, or even which way the reflectors at night might indicate your road’s going to turn … simple things like that, but most frustratingly of all I grew up driving a manual car and I was taught to change down through the gears if I could see the traffic slowed or stopped up ahead and that way when I got to the stoppage … I only was going at a slow speed, if they took off again I was in the right gear to take off again and they don’t do that now. They teach them that it’s cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace gear boxes so that’s why they all come screaming up behind you and slam on the brakes and I quite frankly still think that’s bad driving practice but that’s what they’re all taught by professional driving instructors…

(Caller Terry: … most of the time when these kids kill themselves on the road, it’s in the small hours of the morning, they’re usually either drunk or under some sort of substance influence, what are they going to go up to Mallala or wherever they put this track that they’re talking about, to go and do that at that time in the morning. Are they going to open it up specially for them?)

(Denny: …I think it’s a little unfair to say that they’re necessarily under the influence of something … but I guess the point … is it’s somewhere where they can actually test the extremities of their car rather than on the roads where it’s more dangerous.)

That’s right and … they agreed that there are hoons out there on the roads and indeed they felt that they’d be able to help the police to identify those hoons if there was a better relationship with the police but a lot of them felt that because they drove a car that looked sort of hot or high powered or had a young driver they were being picked on for minor defects and things like that and often no defect at all but costing $165 to go across the dips at Regency Park … there were quite a range of issues raised at this forum, many of which I think are capable of a positive outcome for not just those young people but for the community at large in terms of driver behaviour.

(Denny: … I had a young apprentice doing some work at my house recently and he immediately lost his licence because his P plate had fallen off his back window.)

… one of the things about these changes that have been introduced … one is that that will no longer be a loss of licence, that’s now going to be a fine and point demerit rather than loss of licence, if you’ve got not two P plates visible and that I think’s much more sensible, it’s just so unreasonable … and the other is that the issue about the hours at which they drive, there’s now a provision to say if you’re coming back after having your licence taken for a serious offence then you will be restricted to not having passengers between midnight and five am.

(Denny: …thank you Isobel.)

Kristian Appelt [phonetic], Specialist Car Importer (891ABC 7.20-7.24) Forum re young driver safety and education

(Denny: …Kristian Appelt [phonetic]… imports specialist cars and was at last night’s meeting … I’m gathering that what the Leader of the Opposition had to say last night was music to your ears because you specialise in these high powered vehicles?)

… obviously from a business perspective it has some kind of benefit to me as well but as a parent I was quite heartened to hear the responses from Isobel and from her team because you know we’ve been arguing this point for a number of years now and it’s good to hear that we’re finally getting some traction with it.

(Denny: …so what sort of criteria do you apply to somebody who’s potentially going to buy a Supra or a Skyline or something like that?)

… in terms of the people that come to visit me, in most cases they are already quite aware of what they can and can’t buy. These days with power restrictions and not being able to buy turbo cars, I’ve found particularly recently, that a lot more drivers are coming to me looking for non-turbo cars because they still want the look of the car but they don’t necessarily want to fall foul of the law so non-turbo cars get quite a mention in conversation on the phone these days.

(Denny: …do you ever come across a prospective purchaser who you think … I’m just not sure if you’re capable of handling something like this?)

Generally we don’t get into quite that much discussion but if it’s quite obvious that a person is not going to be capable of handling the car, generally they’ll find that it’s too difficult to purchase a car anyway because I have ways of making it sound a lot more difficult than what it is because it’s not like walking into a car dealer and purchasing a car they actually bring the car over themselves from Japan and when you’re 17 or 18, very few people have the finances to be able to do what’s required to bring a car in in that manner so most of the clientele that I deal with are older anyway.

(Denny: …as an enthusiast … it’s just got to break your heart when you see kids dying in these high powered cars.)

It does and actually one of the points that was made last night was that often some of the cars, like for the two young people who died yesterday in that very unfortunate accident, their car was actually eligible on the P plate list so it’s quite often it’s not the actual car that’s purchased but the way the driver handles the car itself so … on the one hand it’s very sad to hear those sorts of stories, but on the other hand we need to be looking at a broader approach to rather than just looking at the cars a broader approach to licensing and how driver training can be more effective for young people.

(Denny: …thank you.)

[dark.sky]

Wow, sounds very positive!

Excellent work!

[StealthX]

Bout fvckin time. I dont even live in SA but anything like this is good. This transcript hits the nail on the head!!!!

[jrm]

Great work, Kristian.

[SLED]

yeah well done Kristian

[Brezza]

Its so frustrating how many people blame cars (or high powered cars especially) for accidents when its almost always the fault of the monkey behind the wheel.

the worst accident i have witnessed was one where a young bloke was drunk and had hit a stobie pole with his 1980's Holden Camira, not exactly your performance vehicle. he was obviously speeding and it was a wet night and had literally wrapped the car around the pole, the pole had crushed in as far as the handbrake. Can't exactly blame that incident on high powered cars.

Speed + Stupidity, Ignorance or Inexperience + Wet weather = not good

Driver training days are the best thing you can do to really know your abilities and your cars limits.

After doing the training day at Mallala I was able to safely push the limits of my car and abilities and now after spinning out and locking the brakes i know where those limits are and know to stay clear of them on public roads because there are far too many obstacles on the side of public roads. i wouldnt want to risk sliding off the road and crashing my car into anything which will cost me thousands so public roads are a place to be sensible and race track is purpose built for fun in a safe environment.

It'd be damn nice to get another race track closer than Mallala

[Krishy]

that transcript really does put the light at the end of the tunnel, doesn't it?? Well spoken by mr chef

[JMW]

Excellent work Kristian, probably the absolute best person they could have gotten in contact with!

[Iron Chef]

Classic example yesterday, coming up McIntyre Road in monsoonal conditions, I was in the right lane getting ready to turn on to the Golden Way when I got overtaken by a Garden Grove truck with a dog trailer doing 90km/h in the left lane! It was so bad, I'd slowed to 70km/h! THAT is the kind of thing that should be getting people booked!

Oh and I'm writing a 3000-word article for FF&R magazine about this whole topic too

[Fantm1]

"They teach them that it’s cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace gear boxes so that’s why they all come screaming up behind you and slam on the brakes and I quite frankly still think that’s bad driving practice but that’s what they’re all taught by professional driving instructors…"

I've had big arguments with my wife over this. I tried to teach the kids to slow down using gears and brakes so you can re-accelerate in the correct gear without trying to find the right one, but the instructor says brakes are cheaper, and don't confuse them with changing down gears while they are learning (but it's ok to change up) And of course the instructors have auto's because it's easier to teach in, then the kids can go drive a manual with no manual training. They also never get to experience emergency stopping and manouvering to avoid an accident. Just drive slowly and carefully, and when it all goes pear shaped... too bad.

[Aberax]

"They teach them that it’s cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace gear boxes so that’s why they all come screaming up behind you and slam on the brakes and I quite frankly still think that’s bad driving practice but that’s what they’re all taught by professional driving instructors…"

I've had big arguments with my wife over this. I tried to teach the kids to slow down using gears and brakes so you can re-accelerate in the correct gear without trying to find the right one, but the instructor says brakes are cheaper, and don't confuse them with changing down gears while they are learning (but it's ok to change up) And of course the instructors have auto's because it's easier to teach in, then the kids can go drive a manual with no manual training. They also never get to experience emergency stopping and manouvering to avoid an accident. Just drive slowly and carefully, and when it all goes pear shaped... too bad.

Think of it from the Instructors point of view, they have X amount of people learning to drive, now if they are learning in a manual car, it would be more expensive for the instructor to replace a gearbox rather than brakes. As if the students are down shifting, they may select the wrong gear/crunch the gears etc, which adds extra wear and tear on the syncro's and gears, which means the gearbox may need changing sooner then normally needed, so in that case yes replacing brakes is cheaper.

Not all instructors use autos, I first started out in a Manual Car when I was taking classes...I then changed to auto, as I was crap at the slow speed maneuvers, and the parents wouldn't let me practice in the 1 manual car we had. Of course, things may have changed now, I don't entirely know, I know last year or so, my mate was learning to drive in a Manual Car.

Why is the focus all on the young people? I see plenty of middle aged people and older people in accidents or causing them...hell, I almost got T-Boned today on my way back from Victor Harbor by some fuddy-duddy not watching what they were doing.

[scandyflick]

well spoken senor chefly.

[Sammy B]

Good read, glad to hear we're finally getting somewhere Great work Kristian

[Krishy]

Why is the focus all on the young people? I see plenty of middle aged people and older people in accidents or causing them...hell, I almost got T-Boned today on my way back from Victor Harbor by some fuddy-duddy not watching what they were doing.

i find that most of the middle aged drivers are the worst. most of them dont have any driving courtesy at all. change lanes and then indicate and tail gaters. arrgh dont get me started on the shocking driving i see every day going from Parafield Gardens to Murray Bridge and you find its not the young ones but the oldies

[Madaz]

^^ correct and as soon as they see skyline people tail gate you thinking cmon your a skyline go faster or they cut you off trying to menace you or wont let you in traffic, as soon as you drop it back a gear to get away from these tail gaters then drive normal again with some distance before too long they have removed the gap and now your getting daggers like your some sort of anti-christ

i've even been hit when a gap was there but this tool closed it up, insurance claimed it was my fault

[Tangles]

nice.

about time the issue (automobile park) was taken seriously. baby steps first coming to a toddle soon I hope!

[Aberax]

^^ correct and as soon as they see skyline people tail gate you thinking cmon your a skyline go faster or they cut you off trying to menace you or wont let you in traffic, as soon as you drop it back a gear to get away from these tail gaters then drive normal again with some distance before too long they have removed the gap and now your getting daggers like your some sort of anti-christ

i've even been hit when a gap was there but this tool closed it up, insurance claimed it was my fault

+1 Yeah, had things like that happen a few times, just stupid sometimes.

[Madaz]

you can actually +1 posts now with this its above multiquote

[Aberax]

you can actually +1 posts now with this its above multiquote

I know, but I just did it so I could also comment on it

[Madaz]

yeah still good to quote also