Emanage Or Safc

[wolverine]

Hi Charlie

Glad to see you got the message.

[GoldZilla]

Yes wolverine he definately put some sort of boost control in, cant say wether its a bleed valve or not I dont really know, it looks like a red cylinder with a dial on the top to adjust boost level. And the quote i got was from unigroup engineering, my mechanic recommended them as being the best from the quote the 1300 bucks included:

Supply of board, fitting and testing (We have popular exchange ECUs already fitted and ready to go.)

-Setup of CAS, TPS, IAC & VCT (where applicable)

-Vacuum leak check

-Maf service

-Allowance for labour for minor trouble shooting and small repairs

-Tuning to high standards that Unigroup is renowned for

-12 months warranty on the board and ecu and 12 months aftercare

After your opinions I think I will just go with the nisstune and save a bit more cash up cheers guys

Yavuz @ Unigroup is awesome, and very down-to-earth, as I'm sure you'd have found. From my own experience, he is always honest, won't screw you around, will commit time-wise to get your car sorted within the time he says he will (and will be honest and not leave you hanging if he can't do it in time), and WON'T add parts to your car without consulting you first. I've dealt with other workshops who could learn a lot from Yavuz in regards to all of these issues.

[GoldZilla]

Oh hi Charlie! Long time no see!

[Tangles]

I had an safc with my C34 S1.

went from 110rwkw stock to 120rwkw with apexi pod filter, 10psi & catback

120 to 140rwkw with apexi safc, bosch 040 pump & dump/front pipe

140 to 160rwkw with trust intercooler, z32afm and sitc

160 to 180rwkw with slide highflow turbo

180 to 200rwkw with apexi safc, sitc & toshi remap ecu

200 to 220rwkw - took OFF the safc/sitc and installed & tuned AEM Fic-8 fuel ignition controller

220 to 250rwkw added gt30 turbo and s15 injectors

easily adjusted via $100 dell c400 laptop, fast'n'furious style

wideband manageable as well. better than ultimate emanage...../

the AEM Fic-8 is an excellent alternative to the greddy emanage & apexi safc/sitc combo

WHAT IT DOES

AEM’s F/IC 8 is a PC-programmable piggy back controller that allows users to retard timing and add fuel to virtually any 4 and 6 cylinder engine - even on variable cam timing engines (VTEC, iVTEC, VVTi, MiVEC, etc). The F/IC works in parallel with the factory ECU and allows vehicles with CAN-BUS to retain the full functionality of the climate controls, cruise control, dash, and other components of the network.

WHY YOU WANT ONE

If you have boosted your factory engine, or plan to in the future, the AEM F/IC is an affordable alternative to a stand alone engine management system that still allows for powerful tuning. The F/IC can work with either factory or larger aftermarket injectors, and can even clamp a factory MAF so you can run boost with your stock mass air flow sensor. This allows someone with an OBD-II vehicle to easily and safely add a turbo or supercharger to their vehicle yet still maintain every day driveability.

PRECISE FUEL DELIVERY

The F/IC intercepts the signal to the stock injectors, allowing the user to modify pulse-width by +/-100%. The F/IC is among the only piggy-back systems that can decrease injector pulse-width, allowing the user to drive larger aftermarket injectors* while still maintaining proper air / fuel ratios. This powerful system can also tap into the factory injector signal and work independently to drive up to six (6) additional injectors.

TIMING RETARD CONTROL

The F/IC can retard timing from the factory system based on engine RPM and load inputs. This is achieved by intercepting and delaying the outputs from the cam and crank position sensors to the engine- with no adverse affect on applications equipped with variable cam timing.

SENSOR CALIBRATION & CONTROL

The F/IC can also be used to recalibrate / clamp the MAF sensor, eliminating common problems with non-boosted factory MAFs. The on-board MAP sensor allows for proper fueling in boosted conditions.

PRODUCT FEATURES

Works with latest OBD-II race vehicles including those with variable valve timing

Variable valve timing controller based on engine RPM and load

Injector inputs with simulated injector load used when remapping OEM injectors

Injector controller for either remapping of ECU output (+/- 100% trim) or as a stand alone extra injector driver

21x17 maps with configurable load and RPM breakpoints

Analog in/out for remapping/clamping MAF

F/IC can draw power from PC USB for quick and easy calibration changes - even when it's out of the car!

On board 64K datalogger

Drives high or low-impedance injectors with use of Peak & Hold Injector Driver Box

Up to five channels of timing retard

On board 41PSIA (25PSI boost) manifold pressure sensor

[Chris_Beli]

hey Charlie thanks for the input, guess first order of business is high flowing the original turbo then, was going to do that first thing when i got it but ended up fixing the sound system first as it was completed rooted. And so does that mean the blown one you gave me is the orginal stock turbo? or was it an aftermarket one to begin with? Also dont know if it ever did it with you but sometimes when driving up steep hills the boost controller seems to cut out and boost reverts to 7 psi and wont go past that level until the car is turned off and on again? any ideas why it does this?

Oh and cheers for sending the roof rack clip much appreciated.

And Tangles thanks for all the info mate

[Charlie Stokes]

Hi Chris,

Yeah, I know exactly what it is.. The boost is too high and it pings.. As soon as the knock sensor detects the ping it cuts the boost.. Again, this never happen with the old turbo..

I don't know what the Turbo was that I gave you the day you picked it up.. That car went better than any other Stagea I test drove with that turbo on it.. So I don't know if it was the stock one..

But the one that is on it now is a stocker for sure...

Again, get the turbo rebuilt and get it back on.. Take out the boost controller and put the standard air box in with the K&N panel filter I gave you.

I can promise you it will go better and use less fuel.. The car doesn't have to work as hard and the turbo doesn't spool up as much..

You can spend money on anything you like or chase more performance, but all I can tell you is how the car performed and the fuel consumption with the old turbo..

Before you spend any money on anything else, get the right turbo back on it..

Keep in mind, these cars are a 450K to a tank car.. All day long! Best you will ever get out of it is 500K's if you drive like miss daisy!!

Hope your enjoying the car as much as I did! Its a great car.. All it needed was the turbo sorting out to make it 100% again!

[Chris_Beli]

Thanks charlie, Im defiantely going to get the turbo rebuilt just gonna ask a few places to find the best option, went out to precision yesterday but got there a bit late and they were closed unfortunately. And yes I love the car, turbo and fuel issues aside its great to drive and handles so much better then you would expect for such a large car, I suspect thats due to the tein suspension, but yeah its been a great car no plans to get rid of it any time soon.

Cheers mate

[wolverine]

There are lots of other types of rebuilds but if you are going back to a stock framed turbo the GCG ball bearing turbo for about $1800ish is the pick IMO.

There are cheaper bushbearing options from other places but GCG have consistently put out a good product.

Have a good read of the forced induction boards for more information as the choice of turbo has been covered so many times. You need to understand exactly what you want out of your turbo ie power, boost threshold, other required modifications etc before you can get good advice.

ps. It is less likely that the car is pinging, more a case of rich & retard as airflow exceeds the ECU's comfort zone. Turn the boost controller down (anticlockwise?) in the meantime until stops ie around 10psi +/-

[Chris_Beli]

Thanks wolverine what I'm looking at is a high flow rebuild of the stock turbo with all garret internals and upgraded oil lines for 1350 which sounds good to me

[wolverine]

It will be a bushbearing rebuild and you can do much better. The response of bushbearing turbos can be disappointing.

A GCG will bolt back on with no modification required at all so no need for oil or water line modifications.

I would have a good long hard think before going one way or another. Remembering that one upgrade will often lead to another, from airflow meters to injectors.

Do you have an idea of how much power you want? Are you happy with current power levels (give or take a little)?

[Chris_Beli]

Thanks wolverine at this stage I'm not chasing big power I more so just want to get the car running a bit more efficiently and if Charlie says it was better with old turbo then that sounds like the go, I will do a bit of reading up before I go ahead with it but yeah im only a student and part time waiter so I don't have alot of money to throw around so the extra couple of hundred for the GCG might be a bit too much but thanks again for all the input

[wolverine]

Best bet is to save up for the Nistune and get it tune with the existing turbo.

Don't spend the money rebuilding the old turbo until you are ready for a significant power upgrade. By then there may be better options out there anyway.

The difference isn't that great between an R33 (series 1 stagea) and R34 (series 2 stagea) stock turbo. The turbine housing is a little bigger on the R34/OP6 housing which gives about 10kw more top end (+/- a few kw) when you wring the neck of it.

[scotty nm35]

It will be a bushbearing rebuild and you can do much better. The response of bushbearing turbos can be disappointing.

Perhaps you should come for a drive in mine before you make such broad statements.

Journal bearing turbo's generally give a slightly better midrange while the ball bearing ones reach higher shaft speeds as there is no thrust washer force. I am very pleased with mine, as long as it's balanced well (vsr) it will give years of service.

[wolverine]

If we back to back the same core with a BB core it might feel even better.

Clearly the Trust turbos are fantastic bushbearing turbos so I am definitely not saying bushbearing has no merit.

I am in no way questioning their ability to make power but the response generally isn't as good. Garrett publish the difference in response on their website for their cores if you go trawling. I had a bushbearing rebuild and there is no comparison to a quality BB on the road.

When it comes to rebuilding turbos I believe it is worth spending the extra few hundred dollars on a BB core as the cost of changing turbos from labour to tuning makes it worth getting the best possible result the first time especially considering (in this case) there is no rush.

The stagea is a heavy car and IMO needs every bit of help it can get and is more sensitive to losses in response than a lighter car.

If/when you upgrade the turbo again Scott I will be interested to see what differences you notice.

[scotty nm35]

If I ever upgrade it will be to a GTX35 not another highflow. If the manifold on the M35 supported a garrett one would probably already be there.

I have heard too many GCG etc m35 ball bearing rebuilds that sound like jet engines due to excessive bearing noise from new. Mine is almost silent which is good in Vic. I may get to drive Jetwreck's 3071 highflow when its tuned so I will let you know what I think of the difference in response when it happens.

A well balanced core with smallish wheels should fire up pretty quick as there is bugger all friction in a bush bearing. Mine comes on lightning fast if I punch a lower gear.

[Charlie Stokes]

All banter about upgrades, performance and power increases aside, the core of the problem with that car is the current turbo is rubbish!!

The current turbo needs to come off! It always has, it always will... The current turbo is not right.. Hence the reason I hung on to the old one and was going to have it rebuilt myself..

I think you said it in one wolverine.. Upgrades just lead to more upgrades! So to suggest more power seems like it defeats the purpose of what Chris is chasing..

If he wants the car to be more economical on fuel, the answer is to put it back to the way it was when I bought it..

No Boost Controller

The right Turbo

Factory Air Box with the K&N panel installed

It was a shame that the old turbo packed it in, because prior to that, the car was great in comparison to other cars on the forum..

I was getting 450K's all the time.. Best I got was 520K's..

This dropped to anywhere between 350 and 420 with the replacement turbo installed.. I was not happy about it!

You are also right about the boost controller wolverine, it should be turned down a click or two.. Between the warm weather and the Apexi pod sucking in hot air, it will be pinging..

Turning the boost down will stop the boost cut kicking in for now.. I dare say someone has turned it one click or more since you bought it Chris??

[wolverine]

If the current turbo is an R33 based turbo it just needs the Nistune to remap the areas where there are issues. Best bet is to have a look at the current turbo and work out what it is by checking the numbers on the housings. It shouldn't be hard to work out with some pics.

There is a neo turbo in the FS section for $350 which is the cheapest option to go back to stock.

For scott, the GTX3071 looks like the pick for me.

The HKS2835ProS on the stagea sounds like a jet engine at this point until I make a partition/airbox for it. A shame there isn't much room in the M35's but with some of the new CNC billet wheels becoming available there might be a chance of poking something quite tasty into a small space over the next few years...for a reasonable price.

[scotty nm35]

Except I have a 3.5 block here to build.

GTX35 would be the go... Just cant fit the funnel, I need the xr6 front housing.

[Chris_Beli]

I'm gonna go with charlies advice seeing as he is the one who really knows the car. After Christmas will hopefully get the turbo rebuilt be precision turbos who are also the guys my mechanic uses, also I did put the stock air box back in with the panel filter and found it made no real difference in performance or fuel economy so I put the pod back as it sounded better as for the boost controller to my knowledge it has never been touched I have turned it down recently but like I said it only ever plays up when going up really steep hills, eg when going through the national park, so it hasn't ever been a big issue I just wondered what caused it to flip out

Edited December 17, 2010 by Chris_Beli

[Charlie Stokes]

Hey Chris,

Wolverine is right! I would be trying to work out if it is infact a R33 turbo using the numbers on the housing..

If you find it is in fact a R33 Turbo, then the cheapest option might be a NEO turbo from the FS section as suggested..

I did just see one for sale in there as well with 65,000K's on it for $400..

If you find that the turbo currently installed is a NEO Turbo then maybe the one that came of was Hi-Flow? Either way its worth investigating further..

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/345536-standard-r34-neo-turbo-injectors-and-afm/page__p__5568969__hl__neo+turbo__fromsearch__1#entry5568969

Have a look at the photo's at this link, then look at the Turbo I gave you.. See if they are the same.. Then have a look at whats on the car at the moment..

If you find that the one that is installed is different then maybe head down the road of getting one of the FS section?

Although a rebuild of the one I gave you will guarantee its in perfect nick.. You don't know how anyone has treated a turbo on thier car..

The standard airbox won't feel any different, but in summer it will make a difference to the temperature of the air that it being sucked in to the engine.. I does make a difference in fuel economy.. Especially if you do some longer trips.. I used that car to drive to Adelaide and back in January 2009.. The pod & heat did make it use more fuel. Its worth pulling it out and putting the airbox back in.

Any POD filter that doesn't have a cold air partition around it is a mistakte.. I shouldn't have installed it.. At the time I didn't think of a panel filer.

Keep on track, getting the Turbo sorted, the boost controller removed and airbox back in and it will get better economy..

I know the car is capable of easy 450K's if it was setup right. I seen it do it week in week out till the turbo packed it in..

It did 520K's to a tank out on the highway.. But this was done by conservative driving and keeping an eye on the boost gauge!