World Time Attack Challenge 2011

[FineLine]

I like the idea of limiting the number of tyres available but the idea of a compound limitation could be a hindrance in the lower classes being a feeder to the higher end of town.

It certainly wouldnt concern me simply because us poorer folk will never have the wherewithall to race against those guys but I am sure there were cars at sl this year that would have lost lots if the compound limit was introduced.

[N1GTR]

The whole tyre usage issue could be avoided by limiting the number of tyres available to the competitors. Maybe open should be restricted to one or two sets to discourage using them like the pro guys. A no rules event will always be dominated by the biggest budget but this might level the playing field a little in the lower classes.

Great idea!

[Duncan]

Sorry, but there is no way tyre limits will work.

No category in Oz including mine has been successful in stopping cheating when tyre limits are implemented.

Too many ways to get around them, and if you are willing to spend $300k+ on a car for super sprints, you better beleive some of them will be hapy to cheat on something so important.

And I also saw tyres in the pits with japanese stickers on board - no way was everyone buying commercial tyres from oz suppliers.

[T04GTR]

open class shouldnt have a limit. after all they are the ones people want to see smash records.

i know with the utes, we were limited to 1 new set per weekend. 2x 20 min practice 1x 20 min qual 3x 20 min races. and enough left for 1 pracitce at the next event. 1810kg on 235/45/18 048's

but all the open guys who want to go hard and flat spot a few will have there weekend limited, also they may aswell pack it up. after all it is TIME ATTACK not an enduro with a reverse grid race.. its just one biq qualifing session.

besides with the tyre temps we were getting after 4 laps these tyres will fall apart in a race. let alone being boiled over and over again. if this was at phillip island there would of been many r/f blowouts.

if everyone is worried about unfair advantages and budgets of the more well financed teams then to bad. yes to get a mad time takes money. you do not want to go down the road looking for parity because someone will be restricted, and im not going to pay a premium entry fee only to be limited.. similar to the shannons series where it is power to wieght ratio governed.

as far a tyres are concerned all the "semies" used are a road legal tyre. as long as it has a date code,a dot or "e" mark and "tread" its legal.

if any tire rule comes in it should be open with softs and pro with meduims and clubsprint with hards.. semis for all. at least the tyre ware will make it affordable for the pro and clubsprint guys.

we dont want this to be a governed race meeting where we look at weight/power/tyres etc etc. the currant format is ok. but with the variety of cars and combos its just not practical to impose these limitatios.

on the whole it was a good weekend. really just an expencive shake down for further tweeking for us. busted the top of a sleeve in the vq30. (epic head gasket failure) over heated) these things are pretty tough. stock rods are scary thin and use 7mm thick rod bolts. reving to 8k and over 9k on down changes with 20 pounds boost, pulled from a halfcut.. (with our bolt ons lol) bearings all like new as are pistons.

bigger and better here we come

[fatz]

ahh motorsport

2 years before super lap turns to shit with rules!

[Marlin]

Lol, I don't see any rule changes?

Mr Baker is of strong character, and isn't about to be swayed by a simple discussion on a Skyline forum

Im sure he'll make change if he believes it could improve the event

[sav man]

Superlap is the only motorsport I can think of that is pretty much unrestricted. I think it's great! these days inovation in motorsport is pretty much gone with parity rules, and standardised cars. It's nice to see what can be done with no rules.

[skylinegtts]

^^^ Agreed,

Although the only suggestion I would make, would be to make the difference between Pro and Open class greater. As shown by the results, the Top runners in Open, were nipping at the feet of the Pro Class.

Might be an option to keep the entrant numbers around the same but include another class. Club, Open (Privateer), Open (Sponsored), Pro. I think the field is large enough that it could work; and with keeping the rules the same between the two Open Classes. Difficult part will be differentiating between the privateer and sponsored entrants.

[MBS206]

I think we need to get some manufacturer backed cars to see some proper advancements rather then mostly bolting things together...

[SRB]

i think someone should sponsor my open class winning r35 aspirations

[Marlin]

I think we need to get some manufacturer backed cars to see some proper advancements rather then mostly bolting things together...

Did you go to Superlap?

Edited August 11, 2011 by Marlin

[Boosted Zed]

Here's a video of our engine catching fire at Easter Creek Raceway over the weekend as we were doing a lap.

[T04GTR]

FAIL with the upload...

[Marlin]

FAIL with the upload...

At least it's not a "Matt Close @ Targa Tasmania understeer of fail in the Audi TT-RS"

[Boosted Zed]

Engine blow take 2

[Snowman]

At least it's not a "Matt Close @ Targa Tasmania understeer of fail in the Audi TT-RS"

ROFLMAO!!

It's just a matter of time....

[Beer Baron]

I agree tyre regs aren't right for this style of racing. even if you did the guys with money just find a way to optimise their set-up to the limit of the rules.

the whole attraction of this is that it's different to other types of racing. it's not an endurance event so let the guys use 10 sets of tyres if they want to. the average joe with 1 or 2 sets still has a crack. he can set his car up on used tyres and when the track is at it's peak and his set-up is dialled in, bolt on the freshies and go for it just like everyone else.

and if you think about it there is kind of a limit there already. there are only 4 sessions per day. now assuming your car is running for all 8 sessions and set-up optimised and weather is perfect (even the difference between cloudy and sunny can knock a second out of the track) then you can still really only use 8 sets unless you go really hard and try and do 2 full tilts each session. even the Pro class guys use old tyres most sessions and usually have a serious crack with new tyres for the first and last session of the day (first cause track speed is there and last cause setup is dialled in and track comes back a little). so that's only 4 sets of brand new tyres at the most. I'd say most of the Pro guys used 2 sets of new tyres maybe 3 at most. open guys maybe 1 or 2 sets of new tyres with 1 or 2 sets of olds.

like dave said, if you don't think it's fair that guys with the most money have the best gear then motor racing is not for you! luckily though talent, intelligence, and hard work can and often do overcome a big budget.

[Beer Baron]

^^^ Agreed,

Although the only suggestion I would make, would be to make the difference between Pro and Open class greater. As shown by the results, the Top runners in Open, were nipping at the feet of the Pro Class.

Might be an option to keep the entrant numbers around the same but include another class. Club, Open (Privateer), Open (Sponsored), Pro. I think the field is large enough that it could work; and with keeping the rules the same between the two Open Classes. Difficult part will be differentiating between the privateer and sponsored entrants.

I dunno. this year John Unique Zed who came somewhere near the back of Pro class (3rd last actually) could have finished 2nd in open class. that shows me the classes are about right. in fact martin notaras who was second last in Pro would have been 2nd in open too. only the winning open time was really a pro type effort (being a full second ahead of 2nd place and a high 1:34). I think perhaps the top 3 guys in open should be invited to compete in Pro the next year.

Having said that the winning open time would have only got him 14th place in Pro out of 17 cars (so 3rd last). 2nd place in open would have only been good enough for 2nd last.

[nfi]

I really don't think its as bad as everyone's making out.... I competed this year in the White S15 200sx with "SX Developments" down the side of it.

This is a long way from a big budget car... Its a stock sr20 motor with a set of cams and a bolt on 3071R running on pump fuel making 265rwkw. Sure the widebody, paint, cage, carbon etc wasn't cheap but the car isn't a massive dollar car.

I bought a set of medium A050's 2 months ago to practice on and only got one days on them as a driving solutions day got cancelled and the car wasn't ready for the other so like most people we weren't as prepared/practiced as we would have liked but we at least got a supersprint in the week before.

For the event I had a second hand set of Hankooks, the medium A050's and 1 brand new set of Hankooks and that was it. We used the A050's for the first two sessions of practice and then went onto the second hand Hankooks which we used until the last session on Friday where we put the new set on and did the PB of 1.39.6.

So it proved you don't need huge bucks to compete and at least be competetive. The freedom of no rules makes the innovation and preparation more fun not being constrained. Now obviously we were never going to win and dollars do play a huge part but I reckon the innovation plays as big a part as the dollars invested.

That was proven with a couple of pro class cars that didn't meet the expectations/hype.

The event has to differentiate itself from anything else otherwise it won't survive. The reality of Superlap is its a commercial venture so it needs to make money to survive. The best way of drawing crowds (therefore the investment, attention, hype & interest) is to have bigger, better and faster cars and currently there is very few motorsport events you can compete in that have limited rules.

The only caveat on put on that is that the key to the success of this event is the 'relevance' of the cars to those watching it... ie. that car doing 1.35's is like mine.

My concern is that if the event becomes tube/space frame, fibreglass/carbon body skin (ie. carbon body r35) etc then the event will lose its relevance to the audience and my personal opinion is, thats when it may begin to lose its appeal as they may as well be sports sedans. Have you seen the crowds a sports sedan event draw?? Nothing like world time attack..... which comes back to the commercial aspect for its long term survival.....

Edited August 11, 2011 by nfi

[Beer Baron]

I really don't think its as bad as everyone's making out.... I competed this year in the White S15 200sx with "SX Developments" down the side of it.

This is a long way from a big budget car... Its a stock sr20 motor with a set of cams and a bolt on 3071R running on pump fuel making 265rwkw. Sure the widebody, paint, cage, carbon etc wasn't cheap but the car isn't a massive dollar car.

I bought a set of medium A050's 2 months ago to practice on and only got one days on them as a driving solutions day got cancelled and the car wasn't ready for the other so like most people we weren't as prepared/practiced as we would have liked but we at least got a supersprint in the week before.

For the event I had a second hand set of Hankooks, the medium A050's and 1 brand new set of Hankooks and that was it. We used the A050's for the first two sessions of practice and then went onto the second hand Hankooks which we used until the last session on Friday where we put the new set on and did the PB of 1.39.6.

So it proved you don't need huge bucks to compete and at least be competetive. The freedom of no rules makes the innovation and preparation more fun not being constrained. Now obviously we were never going to win and dollars do play a huge part but I reckon the innovation plays as big a part as the dollars invested.

That was proven with a couple of pro class cars that didn't meet the expectations/hype.

The event has to differentiate itself from anything else otherwise it won't survive. The reality of Superlap is its a commercial venture so it needs to make money to survive. The best way of drawing crowds (therefore the investment, attention, hype & interest) is to have bigger, better and faster cars and currently there is very few motorsport events you can compete in that have limited rules.

The only caveat on put on that is that the key to the success of this event is the 'relevance' of the cars to those watching it... ie. that car doing 1.35's is like mine.

My concern is that if the event becomes tube/space frame, fibreglass/carbon body skin (ie. carbon body r35) etc then the event will lose its relevance to the audience and my personal opinion is, thats when it may begin to lose its appeal as they may as well be sports sedans. Have you seen the crowds a sports sedan event draw?? Nothing like world time attack..... which comes back to the commercial aspect for its long term survival.....

couldn't agree more mate. great post and well done on 15th in open! 1:39 is a seriously respectable time and you faired well against plenty of tough competition. 4th to 20th in open was covered by less than 3 seconds!

I agree with nearly all your pooints, particularly about innovation over dollars. It's what I was trying to say with intelligence/talent/hard work overcoming bigger budgets. and the lack of rules really encourages people to innovate and try new stuff (witness MCA S13 with it's hammerhead front wing). and I also agree on keeping it relevant and keeping spectators coming. the key to it's success is that fact that's it's really different and that the cool super fast cars are not so far removed from what typical enthusiasts drive and race. Keeping out the tube frame cars is part of that (I know revolution were an exception).

People who go to eastern creek regularly for different categories will tell you we never get crowds like that. about the only thing in recent times that comes close is historic meets like muscle car masters etc and that's a completely different segment of the community.

I really hope we see WTAC 2012 and at eastern creek again. as much as I'd love to see a new venue I also love being able to directly compare results to previous years. that makes it all the more cool (like Tsukuba has been in japan) and it seems to suit the venue really well.

again, congrats on a great result and a great time.