Kando Dynamics Turbo

[Harey]

Great comparison. How does the rush on boost compare from the seat of the pants?

Did you ever run the T04Z down the 1/4?

[SimonR32]

Here is a quick comparo of both my cars on dyno dynamics dynos, both had the same diff ratio so it should be fairly accurate.

Seat of pants, well the T04Z GTR seemed to punch really hard as it came on boost and then held power to limiter, T67 which feels more gradial and keeps pulling harder and harder till limiter. The graphs show it fairly well actually.

Never had the GTR down the drags but it would have pulled about the same mph as the Gts-t and time would really depend on the launch.

Edited May 8, 2011 by SimonR32

[Harey]

Geeze thats a fantastic wrap for the kando T67! What great value standard RB25 with a $1000 turbo vs forged built RB26 with a $2000+ turbo (not sure if it was the hks or garrett variant).

[GTScotT]

I honestly expected as much, there is a limit to everything and usable power is no exception. Obviously the cars and drivetrains are a variable, but the above goes to show you dont need a 450kw (50,000) GTR to have a fast car.

Im hoping I can find a 'street' limit for my car sub 300kw.. And will happily document it when the time comes. At the moment I am set on running a Kando item, likely to be a 20G. I am tempted to run the 8cm housing BUT want to run the T3 variant so I can rep up the RB25 guys.

[battery]

Dr drift used to run an 8cm copy td06 in his rb25 r32, I asked him about it a while back and he said something like "most fun car I have ever owned" also mentioned something about frying tyres in 4th...

[SimonR32]

Dr drift used to run an 8cm copy td06 in his rb25 r32, I asked him about it a while back and he said something like "most fun car I have ever owned" also mentioned something about frying tyres in 4th...

Took me a while to find but here is the one you are talking about I believe

Retuned last night more mods:

STD RB25

Tiny HKS FMIC

STD Injectors @ 75psi base fuel pressure

Z32 AFM

TD06L2-20G Chinese Copy

GReddy Copy Plenum

Infinity 90mm Throttle Body

2:1 Rising Rate Reg

Dual Boost Controllers - One for each port on Gate

305 rwkw @ 25 psi dropping to 18 psi..

700x300x100 FMIC

[battery]

Yeh that's the one, I PMed him about it a while back asking what he thought of it on the 25 he reckons it's a good match.

Then on the other hand you have mr t67 STATUS saying it's way too small.

I guess in the end it all comes down to personal preference and driving style so you really just have to experiment for yourself and work out which setup suits you.

I wonder what an 8cm rear on the T67 would do to response on an rb25....

Edited May 9, 2011 by battery

[SimonR32]

You can see that it is fairly small on the RB25 as a 7psi boost drop top end shows, would be pushing out a fair bit of heat I would expect, but it clearly still works!

Maybe a TD06SL2 10cm would allow a bit more exhaust flow and make the power a little easier...

I believe STATUS said that the T67 with a 8cm is a waste of time, you only get a tiny gain in response but a decent loss of top end power.

Originally I had the plan that if the T67 was a bit too laggy for khanas etc I would buy a TD06SL2 10cm as well and swap between turbos for when I needed a bit more response or a bit more top end. After I have driven around track/drags/street with the T67 I can say that it's good enough to be a all rounder with no need for a smaller option.

[fr0st]

Ordered the T67 for my dry sumped RB25/30. My dry sump pump also arrived today so I'm getting a bit happy in the pants thinking about how nuts the car will be when its done.

Spec's so far are -

RB25DET head

RB30 block

CP Pistons (8.5:1)

Spool rods

Raceline 4 stage dry sump pump

Shortened sump and head scavenge

Greddy inlet

Reinforced/modded china manifold

44mm ext gate

All showhorned into a little R32 GTS-T... should be mental

[Lithium]

Will be very interesting to see the T67 on an RB30 - what fuel? Should be brutal!!

Took me a while to find but here is the one you are talking about I believe

305rwkw on stock RB25 injectors???!!!!

<edit> Spotted fuel pressure - nevermind me. I tuned an R33 running stock injectors and upgraded fuel pump that made 240rwkw the other day and have already had people remark on the stock injectors... maybe its not too shocking a number?

[Harey]

305rwkw on stock RB25 injectors???!!!!

<edit> Spotted fuel pressure - nevermind me. I tuned an R33 running stock injectors and upgraded fuel pump that made 240rwkw the other day and have already had people remark on the stock injectors... maybe its not too shocking a number?

It shocks me too. So 75psi base fuel pressure, plus a 2:1 fuel regulator, so at 25psi the fuel pressure would be 125psi!! Wonder what fuel pump he ran to get enough fuel flow at such a massive fuel pressure!!??

On an old car I ran ~70 base fuel pressure with a 1:1 regulator and 16psi so 86psi and the walbro fuel pump used to whine like a mofo!! As soon as I dropped the base fuel pressure down you could hardly hear it.

[fr0st]

Will be very interesting to see the T67 on an RB30 - what fuel? Should be brutal!!

Just 98 octane, it's a regular street car with a touch of insanity

Fairly sure there are no E-85 pumps in Perth... I might have to steal some off Simon once the engine is run in and do a dual map.

Edited May 9, 2011 by fr0st

[toffy]

Ordered the T67 for my dry sumped RB25/30. My dry sump pump also arrived today so I'm getting a bit happy in the pants thinking about how nuts the car will be when its done.

Spec's so far are -

RB25DET head

RB30 block

CP Pistons (8.5:1)

Spool rods

Raceline 4 stage dry sump pump

Shortened sump and head scavenge

Greddy inlet

Reinforced/modded china manifold

44mm ext gate

All showhorned into a little R32 GTS-T... should be mental

Haha that's pretty much the setup i'm building atm , except i'm going 9:1 comp , hks cast mani , std inlet (if i can) and std sump , make sure you post up your progress!

[D_Stirls]

That graph for the 20G says 305HP not KW, well according to the title of the graph.

[Roy]

Yeh, no way am 8cm 20G is going to make 305rwkws. I friend used to have one on his RB25 and ran a 10cm housing and it only made 280rwkws with a belly full of boost.

I have a TD06-20G, 25G and T67-25. I think I will go there TD06-25G with 10cm housing for general duties on the RB24 and TD06-20G with 10cm housing for tight motorkhanas etc. The 8cm is really even a tad too small on an RB20 up top when you want to run over 20psi. So it would be way too small on an RB25, may come on harder but the spread of power probably worse as it chokes on its gases up top...IMO, and its only an opinion

[GTScotT]

Cheers for your input Roy, very much what I needed to hear.

As for your comments on TD06 25G and T67 25G... Me and Simon are of the opinion the TD06SL2 and the T67 turbine are the same item, would you care to add anything on the topic?

Also, if anyone knows the use of the "Standard TD06 65mm" and "TD06H 67mm" wheels, we could see some good use come of Kando's internal gate items. I recently noticed an internal gate TRUST item was running an identical rear housing to the below item:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Kinugawa-Turbocharger-3-TD06H-20G-12cm-T3-RB25DET-/280669280977?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4159315ad1

I have a feeling this would be a good bang for buck item on the RB25.

[Harey]

Haha that's pretty much the setup i'm building atm , except i'm going 9:1 comp , hks cast mani , std inlet (if i can) and std sump , make sure you post up your progress!

Smart move with the 9.0 compression, I would definitely not go any less than that.

[Roy]

Cheers for your input Roy, very much what I needed to hear.

As for your comments on TD06 25G and T67 25G... Me and Simon are of the opinion the TD06SL2 and the T67 turbine are the same item, would you care to add anything on the topic?

Also, if anyone knows the use of the "Standard TD06 65mm" and "TD06H 67mm" wheels, we could see some good use come of Kando's internal gate items. I recently noticed an internal gate TRUST item was running an identical rear housing to the below item:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Kinugawa-Turbocharger-3-TD06H-20G-12cm-T3-RB25DET-/280669280977?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4159315ad1

I have a feeling this would be a good bang for buck item on the RB25.

Well, my TD06-20G is not an L2. I had an L2 but gave it to a friend with my old manifold etc to try. There is an identical RB20 to mine running the same mani/gate and tuner - dyno but L2 and he made 0.5kw less then me on the same boost with almost the exact same response. Mine was actually a bit more responsive. So I dont think there is really a big difference between the TD06 and L2 version of the turbine. The L2 turbine is common with the T67. I am not sure about the TD06H, but i know my TD06-25G is actually a TD06SH-25G. Here are some pics of the TD06L2 vs the TD06SH

As you can see the TD06SH wheel is a lot bigger

If you need I can take some wheels of the T67-25G wheel on the weekend and also my TD06 wheel. My turbz are all Greddy/Trust jobbies but imagine they are all the same wheels, if not housings

[GTScotT]

I am begining to believe powerband mostly relies on the size and trim of the turbine wheel, more than it does the sizes of housings and definitely not directly related to the size and trim of the compressor.

The Dr Drift result posted above shows that 68mm compressor or not its still a 61mm turbine in response.

We all know the HKS GTRS and 3071R use the same GT35 compressor wheel, yet there is no way the GT30 variant would be able to keep up on spool vs the GT28 turbine on a said RB25.

Even Stao has shown his G2 to G3 turbos are not so dissimilar in response and powerband to which I believe is due to them running the same turbine wheel. Looking at his now very impressive SS series, they are running a different size and trim turbine with the same 71mm compressor found on the G2 (to my understanding). Even the SS-2 using his billet 71mm wheel shows to have excellent response results, and if I were to read the thread over again.. I am sure he also tested that billet job on his resular 60mm turbine... To which I believe the result was pointless and better off running the G3 compressor.

To my point; I now am of the firm belief that when sizing a turbo you should base your compressor on the outright flow you plan to put to the wheels, then size your turbine based on how you plan to achieve it. In my case I would want the smallest possible turbine wheel that can flow the said output.

That being said, a TD05H 20G may be a good option to shoot for top response and maximum powerband on a 250rwkw sort of level, possibly over. I know evos can see 230 awkw on a TD05H 16G (far smaller compressor) and it is not uncommon to see 270 from the 20G wheel even on our 2.5L 6s.

I will continue to explore options and will send a PM about flange changes today.. Turning T2 based turbos into T3.

[Lithium]

Make up your mind, you often chastise 56trim GT3076Rs for 52trim ones - they are barely different in size. If the compressor affects response that little, 52trim GT30Rs are redundant

That is all oversimplified anyway, the compressor has a lot of affect on how boost threshold is achieved - loosely speaking the exducer is responsible for accelerating the air, the inducer is responsible for drawing it in.

You can actually make a more "responsive" turbo by having a larger sized exducer (fine balance between extra mass and extra "throw" off the tips which is where extended tips come into play).

Same goes for Garrett GT series turbines, they are often physically smaller for the equivalent than Mitsi/Borg turbos but they use a less abrupt blade attack angle through the turbine, meaning they are more of a high speed turbo. Lighter, but don't necessarily respond as fast to low speed gases for the equivalent size... so give or take a bit a Garrett GT series turbine would be normally the equivalent in response and flow to a larger say Borg Warner one, for sake of arguement.

I could go on for fricken ages, but the gist of what I'm saying is don't assume that all things are comparable just by mm measurements of a pair of wheels on different turbos.