Kando Dynamics Turbo

[GTScotT]

Not convincing enough Scot! I think you have tried about 3 times to push me towards HG turbos, for god knows what reason I have no idea at all..

OK the reason why is because I honestly believe the kando does not suit your application. You have preached that you want bolt on and no fuss, and you have dictated a power goal with maximum response.

What I am doing is utilizing the knowledge and experience I posses to give you the best possible advice I believe I can. At this stage there is little to no evidence to support that the fabled 10cm 20g will meet or exceed Stao's efforts. I believe it could go either way.

The method that Stao uses to create the SS1PU involves a balance of the highest flowing turbine in the tightest possible high flowing housing he can match together. not the biggest with the smallest, but what is tested to be a good match in terms of the desired outcome. He has done exactly that with your 270kw fastest spool request, a turbo just for you. Call it the ronaldmcdonaldPU. Stao pushes the flow capacity of each to their limits to achieve the best result possible, which I think is GREAT for the application he intends, and I am TOTALLY for it.

When you consider the Kando 20g, it is also similarly described to the above. A tight housing, a smallish high flowing wheel, it should spool quick and make some good power. It obviously flows as it is working well for Simon (same turbine same housing to T67 vs SL2 if both 10cm). The big plan behind the Kando is the EXTERNAL GATE. The constraint envelope, while still present, is opened with an external gate - not for purposes of additional power, but additional operational headroom.

This added operational headroom makes little to no difference for the average user. Someone who will go do track days and boost around on his daily duties, which the HG will do and will do happily for minimal fuss. The Kando however is more likely to be happy doing 4th gear on a hot drift day or be punted for 30 minutes straight.

As much as I love the HG, this is what I do to tyres:

Do you do this to tyres? Do you get your brakes so hot they melt your tyres? lol.

This is my reason for liking the Kando and why I dont think the HG will suit me. I melt things. I am the one.

You on the other hand have made mention of wanting to track your car eventually, and that you like to drive it around. You currently have a stock dump pipe and turbo, and havent broken that yet. You have also asked how to bolt a v band to the stock dump, and if the wastegate plumbs to the dump and back into it again. All in all, get the f**king hypergear.

[toffy]

Did you drive on your tyre flat?

[Roy]

ive got myself a pair of these td06sl2-25g with 4in compressor covers these are rated for alot more hp with the 25g wheels and the bigger covers so im hoping these will get me over 500rwkw's on my 2j............opinions?

A friend used to have an R32 that ran a Trust 2.7L bottom end, OS Giken Sequential 6 speed with twin T67-25G 8cms. I think it made 610rwkws on a 100-104 style fuel like Sunoco. So suspect you will walk in 500rwkws. He used to run twin TD06-20Gs but wanted more so i grabbed one of the two TD06-20G 10cms that he removed when he upgraded... and still run that same turbo in my car oday.

Depending on what fuel you are running I think 20Gs may be the better option. ICE Performance's Nige ran twin TD06-20Gs oin his Supra and it made mega power. Maybe do a search for DAMN Supra

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67205808-574rwkw-DAMN-Supra-FS!

[GTScotT]

Did you drive on your tyre flat?

lol unfortunately not. I wish the tale behind that tyre was as simple, but im sure you know what your looking at

[Rolls]

Not taking the mickey or taking shots. But I think the answer to that question is quite clear. He feels the HG turbos are the clear choice for your desired power and bolt on requirements. Seems pretty open and shut given that the Kando internal gate turebos have a very poor internal wastegate design.

Have a look at this pic...

http://www.ebay.com....#ht_2092wt_1139

See inside where the dump pipe bolts to, inside you see an opening? Thats where the wastegate gases have to vent into when the IG opens. So the air has to immediately turn 90 degrees, travel 1 inch then turn another 90deg and merge with all the gases coming out of the turbine and into your dump pipe. This causes lots of back pressure and poor flow which ultimately effects how well burnt gases exit the combustion chamber and how well they make power.

Now look at this arrangment, which is more typical of IG housings

http://www.ebay.com....#ht_1895wt_1270

When the IG flap opens the air is free to run into the dump pipe, be it split type or bellmouth type. The flow is travelling parallel with the turbine gases and generally offers very good performance.

That is the general thinking of why people are sayign avoid the IG Kando turbos as without even looking at dyno sheets etc you can see how compromised they are in the housings

Top post Roy, first comparison showing why the IG sucks, all I've heard until now was "it just sucks".

Cheers.

[GTScotT]

the rest of us clearly thought it was just that obvious lol

[stocker]

A friend used to have an R32 that ran a Trust 2.7L bottom end, OS Giken Sequential 6 speed with twin T67-25G 8cms. I think it made 610rwkws on a 100-104 style fuel like Sunoco. So suspect you will walk in 500rwkws. He used to run twin TD06-20Gs but wanted more so i grabbed one of the two TD06-20G 10cms that he removed when he upgraded... and still run that same turbo in my car oday.

Depending on what fuel you are running I think 20Gs may be the better option. ICE Performance's Nige ran twin TD06-20Gs oin his Supra and it made mega power. Maybe do a search for DAMN Supra

http://www.performan...w-DAMN-Supra-FS!

i havent seen that supra before .............nice find thanks for that hey ..........if those turbo's i got are to big with the 4in cover and 25g wheels i can always buy the the smaller 3in cover and 20g wheels only be a little out lay to correct it

thats pretty much the same set up as im planning to run with the different sized cams but i got a hypertune inlet,link g4.id1000's and 6spd tremec magnum box

[Roy]

The the ICE Performance Supra was pretty well known car down here in Victoria for a while until Nigel and his business partner decided to move on. The car ran 10s, made good power on pump and did track days with 400odd rwkws where it was quick in the day. Was very fast considering the poor man used semi slicks he always used to run!!!

On funny fuel made some bigger numbers out of the same engine at Auto Salon. If Ash (R31Nismoid) reads this he may remember but I think it made somewhere early in the 600rwkws at Auto Salon one year but may have run NOS on the dyno. Was in HPI and a few other magazines years ago

[Hanaldo]

Not taking the mickey or taking shots. But I think the answer to that question is quite clear. He feels the HG turbos are the clear choice for your desired power and bolt on requirements. Seems pretty open and shut given that the Kando internal gate turebos have a very poor internal wastegate design.

Have a look at this pic...

http://www.ebay.com....#ht_2092wt_1139

See inside where the dump pipe bolts to, inside you see an opening? Thats where the wastegate gases have to vent into when the IG opens. So the air has to immediately turn 90 degrees, travel 1 inch then turn another 90deg and merge with all the gases coming out of the turbine and into your dump pipe. This causes lots of back pressure and poor flow which ultimately effects how well burnt gases exit the combustion chamber and how well they make power.

Now look at this arrangment, which is more typical of IG housings

http://www.ebay.com....#ht_1895wt_1270

When the IG flap opens the air is free to run into the dump pipe, be it split type or bellmouth type. The flow is travelling parallel with the turbine gases and generally offers very good performance.

That is the general thinking of why people are sayign avoid the IG Kando turbos as without even looking at dyno sheets etc you can see how compromised they are in the housings

The Greddy TD05 uses the same design, we never had any trouble with boost issues. At the time I thought it was a terrible design, but it performed fine. Went very well actually. Any reason the Kando versions would be worse off?

[GTScotT]

The Greddy TD05 uses the same design, we never had any trouble with boost issues. At the time I thought it was a terrible design, but it performed fine. Went very well actually. Any reason the Kando versions would be worse off?

Whos we champ? I love the word we on forums, sounds good.

Seriously, if you have some feedback regarding these please divulge. Im sure everyone here would love to see proof that those housings are a good performer, it will save people PACKETS.

I for one dont believe in that housing, for basic principal, HOWEVER have seen plenty of genuine trust kits floating around with that housing on them.

Please share what you (we) know.

[Hanaldo]

Whos we champ? I love the word we on forums, sounds good.

Seriously, if you have some feedback regarding these please divulge. Im sure everyone here would love to see proof that those housings are a good performer, it will save people PACKETS.

I for one dont believe in that housing, for basic principal, HOWEVER have seen plenty of genuine trust kits floating around with that housing on them.

Please share what you (we) know.

Sorry, my mate and I built an R32 track car together, used to have a Greddy TD05 on an RB25DET. Just normal to use 'we' whenever I refer to it now.

I'll see if I can grab the old dyno sheet from him tomorrow and I will upload. I'm not 100% sure of which model it was, it's a bit mouthy to refer to it as TD05xxxxxxxx all the time. But for those of you who can work it out, it maxed out at 325rwhp@18psi on 98 pump fuel. Full boost by about 4000rpm. As I said, we never had any boost control problems with it. Only issue it did have which could be related was at a track day, after a few hard laps the actuator arm blew off inside, so the wastegate was just flapping around inside and obviously it couldn't boost.

Was a prick to fix, so $300 later it had a complete brand new rear housing and all was good. Don't think we ever drove it again with that turbo though, a forged motor with a bigger turbo setup came along and the car went down that path.

*EDIT* just remembered the Greddy dump pipe that came with the kit was a terrible design as well, started as a 2.25" pipe to join to the turbo and then went to a 3" from there. Don't know if you care about that but thought I would mention it.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Hanaldo

[CEF33Y]

I used to run a kkr 430 on my rb20, had a very similar exhaust housing design to the kando housing linked above. Looked horrible from a flow point of view, but said turbo made 220 rwkw with 20psi, never had any boost control issues. Keen to try a IG kando first, if I have boost control issues then ill sort out EG.

[Rolls]

Is there any real disadvantage to going IG and then going 'yep it is shit' and welding on an external gate and welding the flapper shut at the same time?

[CEF33Y]

Apart from doing things twice, no probs, not like I'm paying a workshop, will do it all myself.

[GTScotT]

I wouldnt weld up and add the EWG tho, buy the proper V band rear housing, they now come in both 8cm and 10cm.

Other than the outlay of a second housing, a mild remake of the dump and a second tune I dont see any issue with giving the IG a shot first.

When I was originally interested in these I had a 6 and specifically asked Kando to make a 10cm T3 IWG housing, I still have the email thanking me for my feedback and confirming he will aim to bring that out ASAP. And now we have it.... But I dont have a 6, so moral is I was willing to do it twice and I still would be. I like IWG if they work and the constraints are limited.

HOWEVER Eiji was also MORE THAN HAPPY to lop the rear of the housing off for me so that the rear of it is totally exposed and it becomes a standard 5 bolt design (like a garrett IWG).

If somebody really wants to try this, the thing to do is email a request for a: TD06SL2-20g T3 10cm Internal wastegate with rear housing opened for use with 5 bolt or individual dump pipe, not single 3 bolt outlet and covered wastegate. wastegate to be uncovered.

Eiji CAN do this and it will resolve the little blocked WG issue we are worried about. But it doesnt mean the housing will be as good as his EWG item... But its worth a shot.

[CEF33Y]

Ahhh, know if it would have the flange to bolt dump to? Or just the v band section cut off?

[Roy]

The Greddy TD05 uses the same design, we never had any trouble with boost issues. At the time I thought it was a terrible design, but it performed fine. Went very well actually. Any reason the Kando versions would be worse off?

Interesting. There are so many variables...I am only basing my opinion on what I have seen from the Trust TD06 range of IG turbos. I have seen probably 4-5 people post graphs from results with IG Trust TD06-20G turbos or when the cars have been for sale. The IG turbos have always been laggier then the four setups I am familiar with that run STD RB20s with Trust external gate setups (my setup, Wheezy, Tim and Kris) and they always seem to be down >20rwkws.

Like I said many variables but the theme is they dont seem to be tuned to make more then 240rwkws and the external setups seem to be making 260-275rwks. So its either the tuners are mega conservative on all the IG setups or there is something different in their performance

[scotty nm35]

Interesting. There are so many variables...I am only basing my opinion on what I have seen from the Trust TD06 range of IG turbos. I have seen probably 4-5 people post graphs from results with IG Trust TD06-20G turbos or when the cars have been for sale. The IG turbos have always been laggier then the four setups I am familiar with that run STD RB20s with Trust external gate setups (my setup, Wheezy, Tim and Kris) and they always seem to be down >20rwkws.

Like I said many variables but the theme is they dont seem to be tuned to make more then 240rwkws and the external setups seem to be making 260-275rwks. So its either the tuners are mega conservative on all the IG setups or there is something different in their performance

Of course, the externals are larger with better flow so they will make more power in the top end. They should also have better midrange without having to put a heavy spring in the actuator.

[CEF33Y]

Sounds good, id be fair cheering if I made 240rwkw with a IG td06, as long as its not too laggy

[Rolls]

If that's all you want to make why not just get HG lol or any other generic highflow.