Kando Dynamics Turbo

[rondofj]

did you not read the thread ?

ill post it here in case you missed it where fineline fitted one to his car, i don't see a stock manifold hitting 500hp?

theres always a cheap way and an expensive way to go about things.

like i said, it may work ok for $300 but for $1100 item, it will work better.

cheap ways work too, sometimes, thats when they become the SMART WAY..haha

[ARTZ]

stock manifold is good for 500 crank hp..

[dori34]

stock manifold is good for 500 crank hp..

we aren't talking crank Hp mate

[Rolls]

did you not read the thread ?

ill post it here in case you missed it where fineline fitted one to his car, i don't see a stock manifold hitting 500hp?

It might flow outright more due to the increase in turbing sizes, but the bends etc might cause other issue.

What if you are making only 300hp, which one would be better then? HG did a test and found it made less power and less response than stock with a power figure around 350hp

[dori34]

It might flow outright more due to the increase in turbing sizes, but the bends etc might cause other issue.

What if you are making only 300hp, which one would be better then? HG did a test and found it made less power and less response than stock with a power figure around 350hp

yes i understand but it wasn't in relation to running a smaller turbo or lesser power, i was simply referring to what fineline got on his car.

we all know the stock manifolds are good for up to 300rwkw already.

[GTScotT]

I did say to complement a T67, id run oem for a 20G or smaller.

rule of thumb: stock manifold is good for up to 300kw~.

[Bsa]

It might flow outright more due to the increase in turbing sizes, but the bends etc might cause other issue.

What if you are making only 300hp, which one would be b

etter then? HG did a test and found it made less power and less response than stock with a power figure around 350hp

Was that internal or external gated turbo? Having the stock mani external gated will allow more flow there for allowing more power without restriction. The stock mani is more reliable the eBay manis anyone that says it's not smokes way to much green

Edited February 14, 2012 by Bsa

[Ke55pig]

What size ic pipeing are people using for the t67 ?? I've currently got Greddy plenum with q45 tb and cooler is 2.5". Should I upgrade cooler or ?? It's Greddy m spec core

[Roy]

Std manifolds are shit. That is all. Sure they make power, could even be similar power to an aftermarket manifold. But on the street or when driving the difference in throttle response is notable.

How bad this thing is? Well provided its made from the same wall thickness bends as all the others then the ID will be about the same so....all this talk about angles etc? It is more like the jap manifold in that it uses a greater then 90 deg angle and a long pipe to mount the wastegate low.No different to how Trust and HKS do it....and for all the d1ck pulling about 6boost my car made more power and better response with the Greddy manifold so ...make of that as you please

So cant see the issue the rest of you all are

vs

[Rolls]

I know this is a gold plated apples and off oranges comparison but how nice are the wastegate angles in this setup!

from a 2000hp evo lol!

http://forums.bimmer...d.php?t=1575817

Edited February 14, 2012 by Rolls

[Roy]

What makes it so nice? it relies on shallow angle and flow and bugger all spring pressure in the gate vs back pressure and sharper angle like most? Whether the turbine housing is the source of all the back pressure or whether its in the collector as well...there isnt worlds apart in the difference. Unless you are running mega small turbines and need the gates to flow all that hp you are getting from small turbine and big compressor

[Rolls]

Restriction is restriction regardless and kills hp.

If what you say was desireable all the time then just use the stock manifold with a gate on there?

[Bsa]

Roy explain how they are shit? Just seems funny cos I managed to make the same power as you with one externally gated and less boost with less quality bolt ons

[Rolls]

he is running a 20

[Roy]

Restriction is restriction regardless and kills hp.

If what you say was desireable all the time then just use the stock manifold with a gate on there?

Agree, I imagine the differences I note below could be largely cancelled by putting a gate there to take all the extra flow that causes back pressure and gas reversion/poor flow and excess heat

I have not driven a 20G setup with a modified manifold so cant really comment for 100% on that. I am not trying to turn this into a d1ck measuring contest, but can you post up the dyno sheet of the setup you are referring to? Still, a dyno doesnt show throttle response and part throttle response which is where i think some of the difference is

Here is my sheet, lower curve is my 98 tune, the higher is my 100 tune. Can get more if it wasnt a track car but for a std motor on PULP 98 with std radiator etc the engine gets damn hot at the track so dont get too keen with the ignition these days as the Plazmaman plenum has made it more sensitive to knock

This is my 98 track tune before I went plazmaman

It is my opinion they are shit. If you are a tuner you will know better then me as you will see how much fuel and ignition the engine will take and the resultant difference tweaking makes as a better reflection of what is working and not working. But I have driven RB20s with 2510, 2530, 2535, HKS 2835, TD06-20G, T04E, GT-RS and GT35R. If you drive my car with aftermarket manifold and external gate then get into the std manifold car with the 2530, you will notice very little difference in response and the external gate setup will feel sharper off boost at light throttle opening. So I club the same sensation to the GT-RS, 2535, 2530, 2510 setups. They seem to only respond when they spool and have boost in them, even at light throttle openings. Despite the far bigger wheels spinning in the GT35R it felt sharp on the street. Plant your foot and you had to wait for the rpms and spool...but to drive around at light throttle openings and sharpness to the throttle response the cars with the aftermarket manifolds all seemed to be nicer to drive.

There also isnt as much difference as you would expect when you consider the wheel sizes of the turbos. What would be interesting is to get a Tial housing for a 2530 and go atmo gate and 6boost and compare to std manifold and 2530.

There are some things you can only see as a result of driving the car....they dont show up when comparing dynos...that said seat of pants sensation can be misleading so perhaps I am wrong

Also, what do you mean by less quality bolt ons? Be itneresting if you would expect a difference. I have a used GTR cooler, used GTR injector,....a 10 year old - 110,00km old HKS Hyper exhaust. The turbos are the same bar the badge,. but mine is 9 years and 60,000kms old....there is nothing exotic about my setup. The Plazmaman and 6boost manifold are new though...lol even though they resulted in losses in performance

I suppose the biggest influence on my thinking is why a GT-RS on a std manifold RB20 isnt as good a thing as a 20G "setup". Not to mention the RB25 setup comparisons I have seen regarding the full 3037 setup and the 3037 Pro turbo on std manifold...but again, perhaps the secret is the gate to the manifold and the external gate rear housings.

Anf LOL, finally...

he is running a 20

Are you taking the piss or being serious? I dont care but you could be right. Perhaps the smaller exhaust pulses of the pissy little 2L six means things are a little more sensitive to exhaust flow and back pressure

[Dale FZ1]

Can get more if it wasnt a track car but for a std motor on PULP 98 with std radiator etc the engine gets damn hot at the track so dont get too keen with the ignition these days as the Plazmaman plenum has made it more sensitive to knock

...to drive around at light throttle openings and sharpness to the throttle response the cars with the aftermarket manifolds all seemed to be nicer to drive.

So your 32 does run hot at track speeds?

It's interesting how things come together at times. Just done a service leading up to first event for the year. Pulled the Pro S off OEM manifold in-car. What a bitch. Made me think about the whole Kando option, and external gate setups with proper fabricated manifold etc. This is now a realistic and financially viable option.

Not dissimilar to the situation with in-tank fuel pump options. Things are much better than they were just a few years ago...

[Ke55pig]

what is the outlet size on the t67 ? sorting cooler piping out

[Roy]

So your 32 does run hot at track speeds?

Sure it runs hot. It doesnt overheat, but it gets far hotter then it ever would on the street or during a spirited drive. If I did more than 4-5 laps flat knacker the thing would probably overheat. I dont like running over 95 water temp. I have no idea about oil temp these days as I still havent re-wired oil temps from years ago when I had the fire at Winton. Oil temp never used to be a drama so I just assume it isnt these days (might be a dangerous assumption )

Everything in my engine bay is scorching hot when I lift the bonnet...you have buckleys of even leaning over the engine bay to listen to a noise or even touch the strut brace or the inlet plenum. Not until it cools down

I still run std water pump and radiator and cap and clutch fan. If I only use 6,500rpm then i can usually go as long as the session allows. Its the extra 2,000rpm that sees the temps start climbing rather quickly.

what is the outlet size on the t67 ? sorting cooler piping out

65mm

[Roy]

Looking back through the thread I found this pic of the cheapo manifold

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=371102

Seems a bit average, I suppose for the money you could clean them up with a die grinder...seems ok value if they control boost ok.

Roy explain how they are shit? Just seems funny cos I managed to make the same power as you with one externally gated and less boost with less quality bolt ons

And BSA/DVS Jez, I have never seen the graph for the RB20 20G setup. Will be real interesting to see if there is much difference. I read in your for sale thread it made 240rwkws at 18psi. The extra 2psi could see you up around the 255rwkws mark so could be a similar result...far better then the std manifold internal gate results I have seen. The real comparison will be the difference if any at 4,000 and 4,500rpm

[Bsa]

That was with server wheel spin we had 300kg in the boot trying to stop it I also had a split inlet manifold gasket restricting any more timing as det was coming present in cyl 2. I also had my gate plumbed into the exhaust I lost 30kw doing this as we tested a before and after. I had 18 psi by 4200 and was making peak power at 6300 but thats not a correct reading because of wheel spin I'll post my graph when I can. When you see the dyno sheet you will see where the wheel spin was happening. When it was drivin on a private road it just kept pumping right to the 8500 mark. If you add all those factors in you would see 260 very easy. The same turbo and gate will be going onto a r32 rb20 with the stock manifold mod. Everything will be the same as what was on my set up including front mount and piping. Jez will be tuning that but won't be for a while yet. Also what dyno was your numbers produced on?