Kando Dynamics Turbo

[34GeeTeeTee]

We had an Epic fail last week on the dyno with an Evo consistently running 169-176AWKW..... Changed plugs, checked for leaks...Checked everything...

Turned out is was simply bad E85... Replaced the tank of fuel and BAM 300+AWKW first run.... We laughed at the end of the day but were a bit annoyed that it was something easy...

Fingers crossed its just clutch slip or something easy man

[GTScotT]

  On 20/03/2012 at 3:54 AM, 34GeeTeeTee said:

We had an Epic fail last week on the dyno with an Evo consistently running 169-176AWKW..... Changed plugs, checked for leaks...Checked everything...

Turned out is was simply bad E85... Replaced the tank of fuel and BAM 300+AWKW first run.... We laughed at the end of the day but were a bit annoyed that it was something easy...

Fingers crossed its just clutch slip or something easy man

E85 Strikes again lol

[34GeeTeeTee]

So others are having similar issues? Or is it just a storage issue? I plan to go down that path very soon so just want to eliminate potential sh*tfights if possible....

[rondofj]

  On 20/03/2012 at 2:02 AM, dori34 said:

sorry, 300rwkw and under only Simon.

good news: it holds boost and i get my car back

bad news: it makes less power on 19psi (220rwkw) then it does on 14.7 (245rwkw).

nothing was changed on inlet side (same as old setup and there was no issues), hot side has been changed and not running a cat to minimise restriction.

any ideas?

Ouch, it didn't meet expectations I guess. Sorry to hear, if i remember correctly, did ARTZ make around 245rwkw on 14.5psi?? Same setup too isn't it.

[dori34]

fresh fuel before it was dropped off from my trusty local Shell Servo, never had an issue with petrol tbh lol

who knows what it could be, im gonna play around with it when i get back and will check for any damaged silicon hoses etc, i will send the map to Jez and see if he can spot anything unusual.

  On 20/03/2012 at 4:13 AM, rondofj said:

Ouch, it didn't meet expectations I guess. Sorry to hear, if i remember correctly, did ARTZ make around 245rwkw on 14.5psi?? Same setup too isn't it.

he made 267 rwkw

[rondofj]

  On 20/03/2012 at 4:14 AM, dori34 said:

fresh fuel before it was dropped off from my trusty local Shell Servo, never had an issue with petrol tbh lol

who knows what it could be, im gonna play around with it when i get back and will check for any damaged silicon hoses etc, i will send the map to Jez and see if he can spot anything unusual.

he made 267 rwkw

How does it drive though? Strong n aggressive? Or not too snappy..

[dori34]

  On 20/03/2012 at 4:30 AM, rondofj said:

How does it drive though? Strong n aggressive? Or not too snappy..

picking it up tonight.

but judging from last time it had boost issues, 1 bar felt pretty slow (compared to my old setup with similar power)

[GTScotT]

  On 20/03/2012 at 4:10 AM, 34GeeTeeTee said:

So others are having similar issues? Or is it just a storage issue? I plan to go down that path very soon so just want to eliminate potential sh*tfights if possible....

Its common for people to have E85 based issues, the fuel takes on water very quickly and is prone to it when stored. That goes for in the tanks at the servo too, remember that not many people run flex fuel cars so the fuel wouldnt sell super quick nor get restocked super quick either.

Remember also that Caltex eflex is a varying content fuel, meaning without a content sensor type ecu and appropriate tune you would want to be buying the CSR shit in barrels **No offense to people on the eflex bandwagon!!**.

My personal theory is to stay 98 till eflex goes mainstream, then i will get a content sensor ECU and go balls out.

  On 20/03/2012 at 4:35 AM, dori34 said:

picking it up tonight.

but judging from last time it had boost issues, 1 bar felt pretty slow (compared to my old setup with similar power)

Just as an FYI, ARTZ failed results are currently on par with hypergears FNT G3. The boost does come on 500rpm sooner, but it doesnt appear to be making any extra power at this stage (midrange). Hopefully a stout boost up once his clutch is fixed will change that, otherwise HG may have it in the bag (remember ARTZ and Stao use the same dyno/tuner).

[Birds]

  On 20/03/2012 at 4:14 AM, dori34 said:

who knows what it could be, im gonna play around with it when i get back and will check for any damaged silicon hoses etc, i will send the map to Jez and see if he can spot anything unusual.

I don't wanna jinx my own tune with my HG, but maybe this is some sort of karma for your stirs in the HG thread, when people had problems making the power that they expected

[ARTZ]

  On 20/03/2012 at 5:42 AM, GTScotT said:

Just as an FYI, ARTZ failed results are currently on par with hypergears FNT G3. The boost does come on 500rpm sooner, but it doesnt appear to be making any extra power at this stage (midrange). Hopefully a stout boost up once his clutch is fixed will change that, otherwise HG may have it in the bag (remember ARTZ and Stao use the same dyno/tuner).

I already know G3 can make more power than I will

[GTScotT]

  On 20/03/2012 at 7:08 PM, ARTZ said:

I already know G3 can make more power than I will

At the moment (with your low boost and slipping clutch) its also matching you for response (sad panda).

Yet you will probably also nearly match it for power (IMHO), yet who knows... Maybe the new clutch and much more aggressive boost curve once fully tuned will yield more midrange I'm pretty sure you will get close to 290kw with the thing, your most way there and still 5psi off target.

[dori34]

here is the dyno sheet;

the line with red dots is the 1.4bar run, it gets good torque but then drops down and doesn't go any further than 180kph (6000rpm) at this time, its missing and running rich and there was black smoke everywhere.

appreciate any feedback on this.

cheers

[Roy]

Out of interest, can somebody explain why some curves are all wavey and all over the place like that? Is it the resolution/scaling?

[Lithium]

On the high boost run the lines are all over the place presumably due to a misfire, whether its dodgy tune, dodgy coil, valve float or something different - who knows.

The build up of midrange looks good, I definitely wouldn't blame the turbo for the poor 1.4bar result... some issue needs to be resolved. Could end up pretty good once sorted

Other than that, more subtle bumpiness in dyno plots are often more to do with "smoothing" the dyno software does on the data it gets from hardware than how than the car is actually running. The data generated from the dyno is less than perfect, if it were plotted in its raw form it'd look more like a bunch of random dots with a general trend which might look a bit like it could be a curve.

The software has the unenviable job of finding a delicate balance of making it into a curve while keeping as much of the finer detail as possible but also keeping it "readable". Smooth it too much, and you could lose useful information - smooth it too little and it could end up just looking like a random lightning bolt. Also, the more you smooth it the lower the reading will be as it effectively draws the "highs" and "lows" closer together. While not a dyno example, this is the kind of thing that will be going on:

Whats the ECU/Engine setup?

[GTScotT]

  On 20/03/2012 at 10:46 PM, Roy said:

Out of interest, can somebody explain why some curves are all wavey and all over the place like that? Is it the resolution/scaling?

When they are big waves it is somewhere in the tune (be it TUNE itself or mechanical tune state of the motor ie faults)

When they are small sharp waves it is normally the dyno sheet resolution. Once you compress the sheet it looks smoother.

In Dori's case its anyones guess right now. Could be spark breakdown, bad CAS signal, bad fuel pressure, poor WG control or clutch slip. Right down the bottom of the list I would say potentially a shit tune, but that is like..... Last option.

Make sure you have constant fuel pressure, double check both your dampeners are still in place, make sure your CAS wiring is still good and double check your clutch isnt letting go. If all of those come back perfect I rekon you have a turbulence issue in the hot side. If only you could borrow ARTZ manifold and housing to test.

[dori34]

cheers for the response guys.

its a Rb25DET NEO

td06sl2-20g 10cm

44mm tial gate fitted to stock exhaust manifold

haltech PS1000 ecu running map sensor

walbro fuel pump (rewired for constant voltage)

600cc highflow injectors

3" dump/front, no cat, 3.5" HKS hipower

2.5" hybrid style FMIC

CPC custom plenum

3A racing pod filter with 3" metal intake

GTScott is right, could be so many factors right now

[Birds]

Could even be the turbo! Or Artz' car has some sort of secret squirrel stuff done to it

[34GeeTeeTee]

When you say -

it gets good torque but then drops down and doesn't go any further than 180kph (6000rpm) at this time, its missing and running rich and there was black smoke everywhere.

It makes it sound like a spark issue as if its blowing a lot of black smoke it sounds like it should have plenty of fuel? Do you run Splitfire coils or similar man?

[GTScotT]

  On 20/03/2012 at 11:25 PM, dori34 said:

44mm tial gate fitted to stock exhaust manifold

walbro fuel pump (rewired for constant voltage)

These are my 2 concerns.

When you installed the pump did you ensure you left the fuel dampener in place? AFAIK the rear dampener is in the tank, in line with the pump (but i could be wrong). Double check this asap.

Im also dubious of the gate off the manifold. Because it branches off at the splitter I'm worried that the flowpath is disrupted by turbulence/reverberation from the WG tube going from one side of the splitter and back to the other. I know people will bawk at me and say no way, but i say yes way definitely possible. Remember the manifold has a true split up to that point, with exhaust pulses mixing at the pinch point when you blow a hole in the splitter. In this case mixing in the WG tube which doesnt extend at all beyond the split.

  On 20/03/2012 at 11:28 PM, Birds said:

Could even be the turbo! Or Artz' car has some sort of secret squirrel stuff done to it

Neg. The turbo is a simple item, simple known working combo (unless it has shat itself which I doubt).

[dori34]

  On 20/03/2012 at 11:42 PM, 34GeeTeeTee said:

When you say -

it gets good torque but then drops down and doesn't go any further than 180kph (6000rpm) at this time, its missing and running rich and there was black smoke everywhere.

It makes it sound like a spark issue as if its blowing a lot of black smoke it sounds like it should have plenty of fuel? Do you run Splitfire coils or similar man?

it isn't starving of fuel or anything like that

running JJR coilpacks

it isn't an ignition related missfire.

  On 20/03/2012 at 11:43 PM, GTScotT said:

These are my 2 concerns.

When you installed the pump did you ensure you left the fuel dampener in place? AFAIK the rear dampener is in the tank, in line with the pump (but i could be wrong). Double check this asap.

Im also dubious of the gate off the manifold. Because it branches off at the splitter I'm worried that the flowpath is disrupted by turbulence/reverberation from the WG tube going from one side of the splitter and back to the other. I know people will bawk at me and say no way, but i say yes way definitely possible. Remember the manifold has a true split up to that point, with exhaust pulses mixing at the pinch point when you blow a hole in the splitter. In this case mixing in the WG tube which doesnt extend at all beyond the split.

the walbro pump ran on my old setup and that ran 18psi without any issues.

BSA ran the same manifold setup on his and it held 17 or 19psi.

my tuner tested it on 1bar, 1.2 and 1.4. both the 1.2 & 1.4bar runs had the same issue and both made less power than the 1bar run. so it seems like anything more than 1bar, its not liking it.

  On 20/03/2012 at 11:28 PM, Birds said:

Could even be the turbo! Or Artz' car has some sort of secret squirrel stuff done to it

maybe i should've rip this out and go with a HG turbo? oh wait, ill have the same issue.