Kando Dynamics Turbo

[Roy]

Ok cool. But doesnt sound like a very definitive dyno run due to little hiccups. Why so much wheelspin? Car not tied down properly or bad wheel alignment and tyres?

My results are on a Dyno Dynamics dyno....I have no idea if its a high reading or low reading dyno. My car has been tuned on the same dyno for a number of years so the results for it at least are by the same tuner and dyno...so easy to compare the changes I have made but the usual hard to compare to others. Status did comment that this particular Dyno Dynamics reads 15-20rwkws higher then his results

It did run on Dr Drifts dyno years ago...but the result was not great due to the std coil packs before they got replaced.

You can see it hits about 21psi at 4,000rpm with just wastegate and no EBC. Its making about 18psi at around 3,750rpm. Not sure how loaded the dyno was for that run. Irrespective of when the dyno says it makes full boost, it doesnt start to really pull until 4,200-4,500rpm when it starts making over 200rwkws

When looking for some old dyno sheets I found an old comparo of old SAU RB20 setups. The results are very old and a spreadsheet from different dynos so plenty of danger is making any direct comparisons and relative statements

My turbo 8cm vs 10cm

My car was making 234rwkws with this tune...it was from around 2005 after I had the engine bay fire at Winton so was not running much power as we were not sure if there was any damage to engine, turbo etc

[Wheezy]

Roy that 21psi was with the 8cm and cam gears or without the adjustable gears? Guessing this was with STD intake and trust manifold?

Just trying to gauge compared to my 8cm as I get 1.25bar (18ish psi) by 4,200 but that was with the FF plenum and no cam gears. I now have cam gears and gain a little in the midrange (mostly some torque), but now drop off power at 6,500-6,800ish (cannot remember to be exact). The FF kept making power at 7,000 and wanted to keep going; but being fairly a standard (25 year old) engine/drive line I'm not going to rev to over 9,000.

These Kandos L2's 'seem' close to the Trust ones. It would be interesting to see results from someone on a hub dyno. Perhaps a three way with my car, Roy's and someone else?

STATUS I am looking at you

Perhaps we should all put back on our standard intake too At least then the hot side can be sorted. But I guess depending on turbo combo the intake might come back into play if you are chasing ultimate response from a 20.

[Roy]

Yeh, old dynpo run from back in the day when my car actually had mid range and torque with the std plenum, cam gears and Greddy exhaust manifold I have cam gears, memory (if you are going to use my settings as a guide then let me know and I will check to make 100% sure) was that the inlet is about 0 and exhaust retarded by about 4 deg

I have always meant to get out to Trent's to give my car a run as I wanted to see if there was any merit between the FF plenums, but now we both run them we may be in the same boat of lacking a bit of mid but making more up top. Based on general dyno performances yours is actually making more power than mine ...

My old girl still has good compression and passed a recent leak down but it just doesnt make power or respond to tune inputs like it used too. Its either age or a combination of things. I am wondering whether its my 10 year old exhaust is on the way out. Plan to rip it off for the upcoming dyno-turbo comparisons juts to make sure muffler isnt collapsing etc.

Did Status comment on whether your cam gear settings are the same with your FF plenum as they are for other similar RB20s running the std inlet plenum. One thing we didnt really play with when I put the Plazmaman on was the cam gear settings. I suppose it has changed the breathing of the engine sufficiently to warrant another play with cam gears but its just so much dyno time and $$$ to get cam gears right

[Wheezy]

The FF plenum did some funny things with the cam gears.

Intake is advanced 8deg exhaust 0.

Trent reckons at 4deg intake it made the same power / little more mid range torque and similar peak.

I stressed I wanted to chase as much response as I could for tracks like Winton which I was visiting at the time. The first time there I noticed the car suffered in the mid range.

It defiantly is noticeably more lethal in it's response in 3rd now (just from testing on the street) and it performed very well on another tight track the last time out on the track (Sale about a year ago now )

I suspect the standard intake will get me back to where I was with perhaps 200rpm earlier in response (IE your 21psi @ 4,000 would be insanely good). But keep that extra torque. I'm not worried about a drop off at 6,800. I have the rev limiter set to 7,600 since having new bearing put in two years ago.

Perhaps once that is sorted and my heat soak issues (need to move the oil cooler) and weather or not the Garrett cartridge and better compressor wheel do the job they have been alleged to then I might get a Kando myself and put the trust away for safe keeping

[STATUS]

Std manifolds are shit. That is all. Sure they make power, could even be similar power to an aftermarket manifold. But on the street or when driving the difference in throttle response is notable.

How bad this thing is? Well provided its made from the same wall thickness bends as all the others then the ID will be about the same so....all this talk about angles etc? It is more like the jap manifold in that it uses a greater then 90 deg angle and a long pipe to mount the wastegate low.No different to how Trust and HKS do it....and for all the d1ck pulling about 6boost my car made more power and better response with the Greddy manifold so ...make of that as you please

So cant see the issue the rest of you all are

vs

I have the same experience, trust manifolds in SR and RB outperform the 6boost items and generally dont have the creep some of the 6boost ones suffered from.

Std manifolds are junk for making power, yes they make it but swap out the manifold for something decent and you can definately see the difference.

[STATUS]

The FF plenum did some funny things with the cam gears.

Intake is advanced 8deg exhaust 0.

Trent reckons at 4deg intake it made the same power / little more mid range torque and similar peak.

I stressed I wanted to chase as much response as I could for tracks like Winton which I was visiting at the time. The first time there I noticed the car suffered in the mid range.

It defiantly is noticeably more lethal in it's response in 3rd now (just from testing on the street) and it performed very well on another tight track the last time out on the track (Sale about a year ago now )

I suspect the standard intake will get me back to where I was with perhaps 200rpm earlier in response (IE your 21psi @ 4,000 would be insanely good). But keep that extra torque. I'm not worried about a drop off at 6,800. I have the rev limiter set to 7,600 since having new bearing put in two years ago.

Perhaps once that is sorted and my heat soak issues (need to move the oil cooler) and weather or not the Garrett cartridge and better compressor wheel do the job they have been alleged to then I might get a Kando myself and put the trust away for safe keeping

Your car is definately tradng top for mid in its current cam gear guise.

[Wheezy]

Your car is definately tradng top for mid in its current cam gear guise.

Yup, wishing more and more I had the standard runners and all the goodness that is factory idle controls. Just collecting parts and I'm going to come in for a tune once the intake is back to factory

[Roy]

I am tempted to get 6boost to try and make a 6 into 2 into 1 manifold. Perhaps thats why the Trust ones work well vs the 6boost 6 into 1 type.

[scotty nm35]

The merge is much smaller that way, it will help direct the pulses into the turbo instead of down another runner IMO Roy.

[GTScotT]

I am tempted to get 6boost to try and make a 6 into 2 into 1 manifold. Perhaps thats why the Trust ones work well vs the 6boost 6 into 1 type.

Cool, and when your done you can give me a money tree seed too

Ive been thinking about putting kando's on a veyron

[Roy]

Cool, and when your done you can give me a money tree seed too

Ive been thinking about putting kando's on a veyron

LOL, seems that way doesnt it.

I have a guy who wants my 20G setup and tune and if the 73HTA works to plan then I already have a buyer for the 6boost and 20G. So the cost of that would help pay for what I assume would the $1,100 for a new manifold using my old gates and piping and 73HTA, otherwise there is always the OBX option just to see if if works.

I suggest that if someone is going to a T67-25G on something like an RB25 then they could find value is seeing if 6boost will tweak his runner design or using a cheap OBX manifold with some bracing to take the weight of the turbo (off the side of the head)

Who knows about RB25s, but on an RB20 a TD06L2-73HTA with an OBX 6-2-1 design manifold and gate would be yours for less than $2000. That would be a steal in my eyes for a turbo that I would hope that will flow 280rwkws on 98, making over 200rwkws from 4,500rpm. With a 10cm housing on RB25 you could very well have a 310rwkws 98 setup. Turbo 1k, OBX $400, T3 housing $200 and $400 for a gate...plus usual cooler and dump pipes.

LOl...if I am waffling on too much then let me know. My random thoughts and excitement often get the better of me

[GTScotT]

Are you able to divulge how to go about ordering the said 73HTA compressor? (I would actually prefer a 68HTA/td05h I think)

If feesible I would wanna get one onto my SR. The ebay 'steampipe manifolds' we have been discussing make the process look very feasible for me (especially considering I can sell my genuine Garrett unit).

[Lithium]

If feesible I would wanna get one onto my SR. The ebay 'steampipe manifolds' we have been discussing make the process look very feasible for me (especially considering I can sell my genuine Garrett unit).

Orrr... you could get your Garrett upgraded to a 68HTA wheel

[GTScotT]

Orrr... you could get your Garrett upgraded to a 68HTA wheel

LOL didnt I already chat about that with you over MSN?

I dunno if thats possible... but I would definitely be willing to give it a go if you can help me facilitate the sourcing of the "GT68HTA" wheel.. I emailed FP but they never replied

I asked them can they supply me with a 68HTA with the bore design of a GT28 shaft.. Then id send it to Stao for some love and housing profiling

[Roy]

Are you able to divulge how to go about ordering the said 73HTA compressor? (I would actually prefer a 68HTA/td05h I think)

If feesible I would wanna get one onto my SR. The ebay 'steampipe manifolds' we have been discussing make the process look very feasible for me (especially considering I can sell my genuine Garrett unit).

Speak to Mark GT Pumps in Sydney http://www.gtpumps.com.au/main.html

He built a friends EVO turbo which won Targa Tasmania Early Modern Category last year so his 20G turbos are good, reliable things. Mark was very helpful and once I decided what I really wanted had the turbo 3-4 days after ordering. I paid about 1K for it with no exhaust housing. ATP in Vic do a similar thing but is a little more expensive, but he also does them for Garrets so maybe more to your needs.

[GTScotT]

Id spoken to Mark back in my Evo days. So your saying he can get his competitors HTA wheels in stock or are you using a GTP HTA wheel of some sort? (rather than an FP HTA)

[Roy]

His 73mm billet wheel is the FP Green 73HTA wheel. I assume his 68HTA is also an FP wheel. It appears the main difference between the FP Green turbo is that they use Garret turbines in Mitsu housings and GT Pumps use the TD06 based turbines. But the compressors are the same. But with different hot sides who knows whether they perform the same. One thing is that I dont have to worry about a single scroll T3 internal gate housing messing with performance as I have my Greddy 8cm to use with the external setup

[GTScotT]

You know what... I just called him and he is happy to do either wheel in the GT28 bore. Prices are very reasonable also.

One item I liked a lot (and im not sure if this is his 68HTA equivilent or not) is his 10 blade full height extended tip wheels.. He can make it in either an 18 or 20g for me and it will surpass the flow of its original and work at lower pressure ratios.

The extended tip wheels go into a normal 18 or 20g housing with no machining required.. So you could easily add one into a kando then get it balanced and go.

Now this is something to take very seriously.. Roy do you have a spare 3 bolt TD05H housing you want to sell?

[Roy]

That one I told you about in Japan is still for sale

http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v228047993

But cant help you out with the requested money tree

[STATUS]

Yup, wishing more and more I had the standard runners and all the goodness that is factory idle controls. Just collecting parts and I'm going to come in for a tune once the intake is back to factory

Hmm how much for the FF? one of the only 20's not to nose over up top was your getup with the old cam timing, i reckon this manifold was the key.... im looking for a c33 laurel to piece together atm... rb20 with l2 on cane sugar of course.