Kando Dynamics Turbo

[methz]

All in all it was a fun weekend, got a good video racing a 32 with built 25 tuned by next up performance with a gtx35r/poncams on eflex he makes 531atw 23psi and down back straight we were both neck n neck hard into 4th haha.

my kando turbo has been on for prob 18months and hasn't missed a beat. and shaft play etc still feels like when I bought it.

old time was run with a gt3582r .82 on 22psi

Edited February 10, 2014 by methz

[GTScotT]

531 HP or KW?

Lith, you are the only one to document a Kando failure. IIRC it was an Evo item which looked very much like it ingested something. You never updated.

[Lithium]

531 HP or KW?

Lith, you are the only one to document a Kando failure. IIRC it was an Evo item which looked very much like it ingested something. You never updated.

I never got any update on it, and haven't been able to treat it as conclusive one way or another but very aware it's the only case I know of as well so treating it cautiously but not looking like enough to take any conclusion from.... Unfortunately a guy I know now is not above dishonesty to it sell his product was involved and made it seem like a common failure, problem is that could or probably was complete bollux.

Doesn't seem like much first hand experience from owners sharing their failures, the one I mentioned certainly is the only I have heard of.

[hypergear]

About Kando failures I have had many came in for repair. It also apply to Greddy, but there were very few of them due to popularity.

It applies to T67 and some of the new large billet T67 alike L2 based turbos in 8/10cm turbines most of them were used on Rb25/26/30 engines running around 20psi of boost.

Have not seen any SR based issues or to any 20Gs.

Every single one had a cracked rear wheel and a rubbed compressor. They are not metal formulation issues, but all of them had a worn thrust and burnt collar. Once the thrust bearing is worn, back pressure forces the turbine wheel spinning against its heat shield. At that point the turbine wheel cracks.

Which is all of our TD06L2 based turbochargers has had its bearing housing modified with a SS2 thrust and collar inserted. From that point there are no problems.

For any one whom has a T67 or larger compressor based L2 TD06, that is going to a Rb25det or larger motor. It is probably worth getting our modified thrust assembly before installation of the turbocharger.

[methz]

531hp..

Id love to do a back to back from standard kando t67 to hypergear billet wheel and re dyno and see the results.

[GTScotT]

Stao do you think it could be to do with the fact they are oil cooled only and generally making reasonable power on an RB?

Perhaps the SR ones are less likely to fail as MOST 20G's sold by Kando are water cooled?

The feedback could prove valuable to this thread and potential buyers, however, it should be noted that Simon and a few others have done extremely well out of their oil cooked T67s.

Edited February 10, 2014 by GTScotT

[WMDC35]

T67 does come water cooled aswell

[scotty nm35]

Most of Stao's test turbo's don't have the water hooked up either I noticed, quick release ftw. Good way to test them out for heat issues I suspect.

[methz]

id prefer non water cooled, less mess with the lines..

[WMDC35]

/\ same, I haven't got the water lines hooked up

[GTScotT]

Just a quick followup on Kando service, I ordered a set of lines last week and they arrived today. That was under 5 business days door to door, stellar.

I also messaged on FB as I had lost the tracking number and was quickly helped out.

Service is still great for a company that does the volume they do.

[WMDC35]

Took about 5 business days to NZ too

[Dale FZ1]

Stao have you seen any similar issues with the TDO6H spec turbine?

Perhaps you might upload a comparison pic of your thrust bearing setup vs the stock Kando, help people understand the differences.

[hypergear]

Oil cooled or not doesn't make much differences in turbocharger's life time, except if it is a ball bearing CHRA. How ever running water cooling can significantly lower engine oil temp, and maintain the condition of engine oil. As If i run a oil cooled turbocharger for dyno tune, by the end of the day my freshly changed engine oil would be black with a burnt smell to it. While running water cooling my engine oil remains clean after many dyno days.

With the 25G L2 based turbo failures, The problem is in the back pressure which explains why the 4cyc 8.5:1 SRs and smaller 20Gs combination never had issues.

The thrust friction is explained in Ff = MFn which Fn is by P A. It appears Greedy has made a smaller shouldered racing collar set to reducing A resulting in less thrust friction, that is probably engineered to encounter with Garrett's BB CHRAs. I guess those are suppose to replaced after every race event. The ones in the Kando items are the larger shouldered Greedy collar copies.

To effectively counter back pressure, ideally is by using a bigger turbine housing or more free flowing exhaust wheel, doing any of those results in unwanted lag.

What I'm doing is by increase collar shoulders that results in larger friction area, using oil pump pressure to increases the resistance to turbine pressure. It is not the ideal way, as the compressor and turbine flow is not resulting in a balanced sense, example would be as if I've built a 2582 configuration.

Our SS/GX turbochargers are matched with much bigger wheels and housing depending on compressor flow, in a sense that I will end up reaching maximum compressor efficiency instead of reaching maximum turbine capacity. That way I never encountered any reliability issues.

About our reliable low friction thrust collar and bearing assembly that I did spent alot of time developing, I won't be posting up photos of its components. But end result is:

[Dale FZ1]

Good explanation Stao, thanks. Higher pressures result in higher axial loads, putting pressure/wear on the collar.

I understand why you wouldn't want to post up pics of your gear, although if/when you get another Kando in for repairs perhaps you might consider putting up pics of the failure areas ?

[Lithium]

With the 25G L2 based turbo failures, The problem is in the back pressure which explains why the 4cyc 8.5:1 SRs and smaller 20Gs combination never had issues.

Cheers for discussing this, interesting reading. I've been a bit dubious of the idea of 25Gs on L2 turbines but hadn't considered that they could actually run into reliability issues beyond the fact that things always will wear a bit worse when worked harder. The one person I know who had a Kando failure was running a Kando 60-1 on a small turbine combo, too - which I always thought was a bit of an ugly way of going about it anyway ..... so strictly speaking picking suitable compressor to turbine matches can avoid this issue?

[Lithium]

Awesome, good luck. I'll be lying if I said I wouldn't be disappointed if it went under 115mph, but it's really hard to say beyond there - it's got a really difficult to "read" seat of pants feel, its surprisingly quick though. I'd kindof like to see around 120mph, but realistically anywhere between 115-120 would be well respectable for such a basic setup I reckon.

Update on the 16G SR20DET setup, frustrating times for the owner trying to find traction - to be fair he doesn't really drag race (car as built with track in mind)... 2nd gear was quite crunchy too, so made life a bit difficult for him too. Ended up running wastegate (around 13psi) in first to try and make it easier to control wheelspin, and 19psi the rest of the way down and best time was 13.0, and best trap speed was 118.4mph which is pretty much bang on what we had been discussing as a target.

Here is a time slip with the highest trap speed, it's the only one I actually got my hands on to take a pic of :-)

[hy_rpm]

Not a bad result definately has potential for mid to high 12s and a low 12s with a very good driver

What power is it making ?

[Lithium]

Not sure. It made 250kw @ hubs on 16psi a Dynapack set up how Trent @ Chequered sets his up - we bumped the boost up to around 19/20psi and just checked over the tune to make sure it seemed safe and sensible, so not sure exactly what power it is making there. The turbo should still have a reasonable amount of flow left in it, we didn't go past 20psi because the car only has a 2.5bar map sensor.

[methz]

good result, so with the higher boost, ud imagine around 280rwkw mark with 118mph, what does the car weigh?