Kando Dynamics Turbo

[Lithium]

So the TD06H 25Gs should probably be fine too?

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[ARTZ]

So basically, one guy named Simon got awesome results from a t67 under what must of been perfect conditions.... So now everybody is trying to replicate said set up with less than perfect results...

[hypergear]

Greddy only made 25G with the larger TD06H turbine. It is balanced flow wise. I have few friends use them on their GTRs track cars, and they have no problems. Greddy run them with their narrow shoulder collars as default also.

The highest number I've seen based of a T67 at Trents was 375rwkws on E85, it was a daily and that turbo lasted 3 month. I have not seen one that replicated Simon's result. Not sure if it was based on a TD06H turbine, if so, it would be making alot more sense as his result appears to be much laggier too.

[Lithium]

Yeah I am wondering that too

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[ARTZ]

Yup

[Dale FZ1]

I've never "got" the reasons why people have tried to achieve the absolute maximum flow output of their particular turbocharger(s).

Screwing 24-26psi out of what you'd have to call a hybrid match of Mitsubishi copy bits is going to have to highlight any spec mismatch (compressor:turbine rotor) or spec deficiencies (thrust bearing, centre bearing or shaft) and bring about short service life. Those who were around in the Group A days might remember early Sierra RS500s having ugly smoky failures on track as the racers tried to screw big numbers out of the T3/4 hybrid turbos.

Look at the Mitsubishi trends with what they fit to their own engines and it's pretty clear that they put a lot of focus on turbine flow, whether the various Evo specs, or light diesels, or trucks.

Achievements with the TDO5-16G on Lithium's mate's S14 proves that combo works with a 2 litre 4 cyl engine. For someone wanting to use the Kinugawa gear on an RB25 chasing the 300-320 rwkW target running pump 98 I think the TDO6SL2 20G would do a particularly good job without wanting to destroy itself in short order.

I think the reason Garrett products seem to use impellers with comparatively big dimension differences to their turbine rotors is because the ball bearing design can deal with high thrust loads much more effectively. But ask around and see how their nylon cages for those bearings deal with heat when pushed hard and it's not a happy scene there either.

Bottom line for me is that if you want to run a biggish compressor and push a lot of boost into the engine, you've got to uncork the hot side a bit to let it all out.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Dale FZ1

[Dale FZ1]

A bit of hunting through the Kinugawa catalogue shows the SL2 turbine is available with either 9 or 11 bladed options. Fewer blades would give higher flow efficiency but maybe a bit less drive (response) at lower turbine speeds.

The 20G compressor is available as a billet item with extended tip and presumably higher flow capability/efficiency than the standard cast item.

I can picture that combination punching pretty hard and making decent numbers at higher boost levels. It's only a matter of what cost for that spec, and whether they will warrant their units without the BS shipping costs borne by the customer.

[zebra]

Hey guys

Chasing some photos of you high mount oil drain setups

Looking for ideas

[methz]

my kando t67 is 2yr old running 22psi+ and around 487atw no problem whatsoever, and zebra just run speedflow 200 series as ur drain with the right adapters its around $100 for all the fittings and will last forever

[zebra]

Cheers

Any chance of a pic. the drain is farking close to the flange

[R_34]

I got my car tuned this week-end.

I have the highflow turbo with the stage 3 turbine and 20g turbine.

This is this one :

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/upgradeturbochargerrb20detrb25detwstage3turbine68mmcomp450bhp.aspx

And the turbo is bolted to an RB20DET with DW 444cc injectors, Z32 maf, ffp, FMIC, bcpr7es gapped to 0.8mm and standard S13 airbox mith some minor mods made to it to attach the Z32 MAF, the standard R32 airbox feed and a 4" boa placed right at the airbox entry getting fresh air from the oem air feeding for the standard SMIC. The airbox contain a standard paper filter.

With the standard tune I had some problems to control the boost, I couldn't set it lower than 0.9b. I tried 3 different spring (1b, 0.8b and 0.5b) and the lowest boost I was able to achieve was still 0.9b with the 0.5b spring with the least amount of preload.

After some change on the tune (mainly a lot of spark advance), the boost finally went down to 0.7b on the actuator alone. At this stage I was having more torque and power than with the standard tune at 0.9b.

We plugged back the EBC (an old fashioned profec B), and set the boost quickly to 1b.

The turbo is still a slow spooling one, it starts to boost pretty early (1500~2000 rpm given the gear), but it doesn't hit 0.5b until 3000 rpm, the engine start to pull from 3500 rpm but it needs really 4000 rpm to shine.

No problem to hold the boost until the rev limiter set to 7800 rpm. We didn't increase the rev further because we suspected some valve floating when hitting the rev limiter.

We bolted a microphone to the head to hear the knock, that's how we suspected the valve floating.

At 1b of boost we encoutered almost no knock on the engine, and the engine was really rev happy pulling more and more as the revs were climbing.

Then we incresed the boost slowly until we hit 1.4b. The turbo responded very well despite the weak 0.5b spring. It spool well and hold steady at 1.4b until rev limiter again, without any taper whatsoever.

The engine was more prone to knock, especially in 4th gear beyond 6500/7000 rpm. We had to lower the spark advance to avoid any knock after several pull.

With 1.4b, the mid to high rpm range (4000 to 6000) is a lot fatter, but the engine seem to lose some torque beyond 6500 rpm or so. That's partly because we backed off the spark advance to avoid knock but I don't know if this is because of the turbo pushing hotter air or the turbine/turbine housing beginning to restrict the engine breathing.

But it still pull well beyond and is able to do 260+ km/h pretty easily even with the super tall 5th gear.

The engine was tuned at 12/12.2 AFR and reach 920°C of EGT at the very top of 4th gear and in 5th gear beyond 6200/6500 rpm.

We backed off something like 3° of spark from the very beginning of knock.

The engine never passed the 88°C of water temp and 115°C of oil temperature and we never had a misfire. It relly makes me confident over him, it's like it didn't ever sweat during the tune.

No dyno yet, the tune was made on the road, the Z32 maf peak at 4.46v in 2nd 3rd and 4th and a little lower in fifth but I never passed 7000 rpm in fifth (that's 280+ km/h territory with my final drive ratio of 3.916).

The turbo is not grinded on the wastegate port, it just have a ceramic coating and the egt probe bolted in the turbine housing.

I'm pretty happy of the turbo for now, no strange noise, it respond well, a little slow to spool but that's an RB20 after all. The power is pretty impressive for someone used to a mighty CA18 with a stage 3.

Beyond 4000 rpm the RB20 is really shining over the CA, below the CA was more torquey.

So not a bad turbo for the price, we'll see how long it last or if i'm tired of it before it dies.

[Roy]

Greddy only made 25G with the larger TD06H turbine. It is balanced flow wise. I have few friends use them on their GTRs track cars, and they have no problems. Greddy run them with their narrow shoulder collars as default also.

.

Can you clarify what you mean with this post. The T67 uses the same 25G compressor.

Only the turbine is different from a wheel perspective running L2 rear.

There is nothing unreliable about the Greddy turbos. ...they ceank out power tear after year owner after owner...but oil quality and temp needs to ne looked after

[GTScotT]

I'm pretty happy of the turbo for now, no strange noise, it respond well, a little slow to spool but that's an RB20 after all. The power is pretty impressive for someone used to a mighty CA18 with a stage 3.

Beyond 4000 rpm the RB20 is really shining over the CA, below the CA was more torquey.

So not a bad turbo for the price, we'll see how long it last or if i'm tired of it before it dies.

These are very encouraging results! Thanks so much for sharing and providing such great detail. Please update us if you ever see the dyno for a power run.

I would say the turbo will be at least 500rpm earlier in spool on an RB25.

Regarding the longevity of the turbo I would sat you should not be concerned. Hypergear (local turbo outfit in VIC AUS) has confirmed that the Kando units typically only fail when there is an imbalance between compressor and turbine flow. In this case the Stage 3 rear wheel should out perform the 20G compressor by a fair whack, so I believe this will be a reliable unit.

Props !

[hypergear]

Can you clarify what you mean with this post. The T67 uses the same 25G compressor.

Only the turbine is different from a wheel perspective running L2 rear.

There is nothing unreliable about the Greddy turbos. ...they ceank out power tear after year owner after owner...but oil quality and temp needs to ne looked after

Genuine Greddy don't have issues because their figured them all out. So their 25G TD06 comes with a TD06H turbine only, 25G and L2 turbine don't exist.

[zebra]

Greddy did make the T67 with the L2 rear.

[hypergear]

In Greddy's website. The only L2 based turbos are with 20G comps. part number is 11500205 and 11500200

All the 25Gs I've see is in the larger H turbine. 25G's compressor will way out flow a L2 turbine.

[GTScotT]

I was also confident a T67 is a TD06SL2 25G, not a TD06H.

Any proof please?

[1400r]

http://website.lineone.net/~jon_ed/Turbo_Table.htm

look here for all the spec difference t67 vs L2

now dyno results for

TD06H 20G I/G bolton rb kit kando anyone?

got one and a T67 coming and want to know if the T67 is worth the extra effort of gate and manifold

also chasing people's thoughts on if I'll end up having to EG the TD06H anyway to get good boost control

[Dale FZ1]

I'd think the TDO6H gives way more flow than necessary for a 20G compressor. Weight would be a factor inhibiting response too.

Go for an EW setup and don't look back. Makes for far easier spec changes if you're using essentially the same housings with different internal profiles to suit the rotating bits.

[Roy]

In Greddy's website. The only L2 based turbos are with 20G comps. part number is 11500205 and 11500200

All the 25Gs I've see is in the larger H turbine. 25G's compressor will way out flow a L2 turbine.

Ummm...forgetting the numbers and codes. The T67 which in Greddy speak is a T67-25G runs the same turbine as the TD06L2-20G. The turbine housings swap over, they have the same number of blades, they have the same pictch,. diameters...they are the same on the Trust/Greddy turbos. If they are not the same I would love to know what the differences are?

Common wisdom in Greddy speak is the T67 and TD06-25G whilst running the same compressors run different turbines and different shaft diameters, The TD06H-25G I understand (going from memory here) uses the same shaft diam as the T78 turbos.

Kando and other knock offs...who knows!?!?!

A forum owner Kris bought my genuine Greddy L2 20G and the turbine was exactly the same as the genuine T67 I am running now

This turbo (sold to Kris)

Is on the left here

On the right is a genuine TD06H-25G (below is the actual compressor cover of the turbo on the right)

I dont have many good pics of my T67-25G. About the only pic I have uploaded is