M35 Engine And Turbo Out

[Tommy Kaira RL]

To get to this stage took my brother and I in his workshop on a hoist about 2hrs to get the turbo off.

Remove plastic trim around battery and take battery out. Remove engine cover. Undo the main batery cables to engine and pull off the body right back to engine.

Take off the plastic trim under window and you will see a loom. Remove passenger kick panel and unclip the looms that go through the big rubber bung and pull up.

Remove the intake hoses on top of turbo and AFM and air cleaner.

Take off fan and shroud.

Also undo the ABS sensors and unclip to wheel arch.

Remove hoses that are connected from body to engine. And manifold just before the throttle body. Leave the fuel lines. And pull power steering resovior over to side.

Now lift car up. Undo the 4 bolts on tailshaft on back of gearbox. Also disconnect the oil line and bung and cable tie up. Take off the shifter pivot while your there.

Remove lower boost hose to get access to AC

Un bolt AC pump from motor and swing over to where air cleaner was.

Remove exhaust from dump to the muffler.

Undo brake lines at the c clip and stop from dripping.

Now its ready to lower onto stands and take the gearbox crossmember bolts out. Take the strut top nuts off and top ball joint.

Then I think there was 2 or 3 bolts holding the subframe in. Undo them.

One last check to see nothing would get in the way. Raised the car while watching for any jamming and letting the ecu loom go down the back as in the photo.

After the car is raised up from the engine the heat sheild can be removed.

All oil lines and water have to be removed then its just the 4 main bolts on the manifold and off came the turbo.

Photo of the drivers side

Photo of passenger side

Photo of front

Now I thought id look inside turbo I marked the casing and remover the intake housing. It looks like it just touched the surface. The bearings sounds shot its very scratchy. Im thinking its the thrust washer. I cant look at it any further today as i need more tools. Im hoping I can get a garrett kit and do it myself. I have before done a kit on a turbo on my last 33. But I would hate to have the turbo out again.

What do people reckon would this be an easy fix for a handy man that just passed all of the above and try and fix it myself or get it rebuilt.

From the pictures in the photo off the fins do people think i will get away with them.

How do you tell if the exhaust wheel is steel or ceramic it has a metal sound to it when you lightly tap it.

It was going to be 42deg today in SA so it was get it done quick.

[scotty nm35]

You could get a garrett 3071 core and machine the housings or just go bushed core like most of us have. Our core is not rebuild-able and is ceramic rear wheel.

Nice job getting the engine down, I do all my work on the ground, just lowering the gearbox a bit. Theres room to remove it but I have made a few special tools to help.

If you need some numbers to ring for turbo rebuilds, just ask.

[lachlanw]

a magnet will tell you what the exhaust wheel is made of .

yeah get it highflowd.

also interested in the kit from garret you built your 33 turbo with ????

[KiwiRS4T]

Get it rebuilt - it will need balancing. Good work getting it out in 2 hrs.

[Sunkist]

Garret GT3071 cores come with wheels and are balance from garret, you only need to machine the housing.

perhaps you could buy the core, take it to a turbo shop with you stock turbo and say make this work lol

[Jetwreck]

just a head's up with the 30/71 core......it's takes a lot to get it going properly.....it's very laggy until everything is done.

Well done getting the motor out in that time Brad.....it's a lot easy now to do everything that needs to get done!

[wolverine]

a magnet will tell you what the exhaust wheel is made of .

If the turbine wheel is made with ferrous material it will work but not all metallic turbine wheels are magnetic.

[Tommy Kaira RL]

a magnet will tell you what the exhaust wheel is made of .

yeah get it highflowd.

also interested in the kit from garret you built your 33 turbo with ????

I just rang MTQ and told them I had a Garrett TB3401. They gave me a kit with bush bearings, piston seals, gaskets and o rings. Everything basically except the turbines. As long as you dont have a nut with grinds on it on intake turbine because its balanced with the turbune and shaft. You can reasemmble them if they have a standard nut because everything is balanced seperately. Followed some instructions and it never had a problem again.

[lachlanw]

so was that the standard turbo ? or an aftermarket one? or you converted the standard ball bearing one to bush bearing ?

[Tommy Kaira RL]

so was that the standard turbo ? or an aftermarket one? or you converted the standard ball bearing one to bush bearing ?

It was aftermarket. It only just fitted in the low mount position. And was allready bush bearing.

I had to put the car back down on the engine and gearbox today and take off hoist. My brother needs his hoist back. Then I get to do it all again next week.

Ive finally getting mt turbo fixed. Bill at ATS in Adelaide is getting me a GCG changeover like [[danny]] has on his M35. Bill also did danwatts turbo which needed a few mods to fit. My changeover is direct bolton.

Also got Scotty making me a dump while im at it Thanks.

[Jetwreck]

It was aftermarket. It only just fitted in the low mount position. And was allready bush bearing.

I had to put the car back down on the engine and gearbox today and take off hoist. My brother needs his hoist back. Then I get to do it all again next week.

Ive finally getting mt turbo fixed. Bill at ATS in Adelaide is getting me a GCG changeover like [[danny]] has on his M35. Bill also did danwatts turbo which needed a few mods to fit. My changeover is direct bolton.

Also got Scotty making me a dump while im at it Thanks.

Make sure you open up the banjo on the front of the motor for oil feed for the GCG or Garret BB set's!

Danwatt's turbo was a Garret BB set with a GT30/71 core wasn't it?...same as mine!....the Garrett BB set is 20mm shorter than the GCG BB set / standard turbo!.

If you have gone with the Garret BB set the below pic will be some help.....these are the parts you will need to make up!

Edited February 1, 2011 by Jetwreck

[Tommy Kaira RL]

Make sure you open up the banjo on the front of the motor for oil feed for the GCG or Garret BB set's!

I guess you mean the small hole in the side of the banjo bolt to open up. Would you have a size to open it upto. I would think going to big would cause to much oil. Does that mean also that the banjo bolt on the turbo needs to be opened? And yes its going to be GCG BB

[Jetwreck]

I guess you mean the small hole in the side of the banjo bolt to open up. Would you have a size to open it upto. I would think going to big would cause to much oil. Does that mean also that the banjo bolt on the turbo needs to be opened? And yes its going to be GCG BB

Danwatt did a flow test on it ......you need to open it up fully as per the end of the banjo...not as the inner of it!...if that makes sense!..maybe it will when you get the bolt out!

.....I didn't have to open up the banjo on the turbo as it was already the correct to the line size.....my turbo builder has informed me that that is what I needed to do to get flow up to the Garret BB set.

[scotty nm35]

Make sure you open up the banjo on the front of the motor for oil feed for the GCG or Garret BB set's!

Danwatt's turbo was a Garret BB set with a GT30/71 core wasn't it?...same as mine!....the Garrett BB set is 20mm shorter than the GCG BB set / standard turbo!.

If you have gone with the Garret BB set the below pic will be some help.....these are the parts you will need to make up!

I am worried you may be supplying the wrong information here buddy, my turbo has bush internals, usually requiring more oil flow than bearing jobs, I have had no issue with mine for over a year at 20psi, added to the fact your Garrett core has a secondary restrictor built into the oil supply fitting on top of the turbo.

I found this today, how big is 30 thou?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TIAL-OIL-SUPPLY-FEED-RESTRICTOR-FITTING-GT-TURBO-0-030-/160507751949?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255f01ee0d#ht_1118wt_905

That said, I was advised by ATP today that I should be opening the restrictor up to 1/8th or 3mm only as that is what the skylines run. Im not sure what to do now, perhaps just leave it?

[Daleo]

I am worried you may be supplying the wrong information here buddy, my turbo has bush internals, usually requiring more oil flow than bearing jobs,

I found this today, how big is 30 thou?

http://cgi.ebay.com....d#ht_1118wt_905

You're right Scotty, Bush bearing turbos definitely require more oil flow than Ball Bearing turbos. While this is Garrett's own info, it still applies;

http://www.turbobyga...enter/faqs.html

Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?

Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing.

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.

Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.

The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.

1 thou = 0.0254mm

30 thou= 0.762mm.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Daleo

[Sunkist]

You're right Scotty, Bush bearing turbos definitely require more oil flow than Ball Bearing turbos. While this is Garrett's own info, it still applies;

http://www.turbobyga...enter/faqs.html

Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?

Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing.

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.

Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.

The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.

1 thou = 0.0254mm

30 thou= 0.762mm.

exactly as I thought. now based on our banjo plug hole being 1mm, is that adequate enough for the amount of oil Pressure we have in the VQ Motor. IIRC, the VQ has almost twice as much oil pressure as an RB.

But Scotts Turbo is going strong at 20psi for a year, and andy65b has his banjo opened up and says no worries.

does our core have another restrictor in it??

[Jetwreck]

I am worried you may be supplying the wrong information here buddy, my turbo has bush internals, usually requiring more oil flow than bearing jobs, I have had no issue with mine for over a year at 20psi, added to the fact your Garrett core has a secondary restrictor built into the oil supply fitting on top of the turbo.

I found this today, how big is 30 thou?

http://cgi.ebay.com....d#ht_1118wt_905

That said, I was advised by ATP today that I should be opening the restrictor up to 1/8th or 3mm only as that is what the skylines run. Im not sure what to do now, perhaps just leave it?

That I may be!....but what killed Aaron's? .......... every time I hear the GCG BB set(or similar) I get a cold shiver when the motor is turned off or reving....I have heard supercharge's quieter....bb's are not supposed to make that sound!

In saying that does the GCG have a secondary restrictor?

You know I have opened up my Banjo and have never had a hassle with too much oil going through the system.....and that's 2 years at 18 -19PSI!...plus about 4 days at past 20PSI!

From memory the problem is at idle our car produces about .9Lpm with the 3.5mm banjo on the turbo.....I needed to get it up to about min of 1.6Lpm to a max of 1.8Lpm on idle for the Garrett BB set(and may I add I also think the GCG needs the same luv'n).

P.S. Good read above Dale!

Edited February 1, 2011 by Jetwreck

[Daleo]

That I may be!....but what killed Aaron's? .......... every time I hear the GCG BB set(or similar) I get a cold shiver when the motor is turned off....bb's are not supposed to make that sound!

P.S. Good read above Dale!

I remember you saying the same thing about Danny's GCG BB, that was LOUD!

Might be doing a turbo on mine soon too...

[Sunkist]

That I may be!....but what killed Aaron's? .......... every time I hear the GCG BB set(or similar) I get a cold shiver when the motor is turned off....bb's are not supposed to make that sound!

In saying that does the GCG have a secondary restrictor?

You know I have opened up my Banjo and have never had a hassle with too much oil going through the system.....and that's 2 years at 18 -19PSI!...plus about 4 days at past 20PSI!

From memory the problem is at idle our car produces about .9Lpm with the 3.5mm banjo on the turbo.....I needed to get it up to about min of 1.6Lpm to a max of 1.8Lpm on idle for the Garrett BB set(and may I add I also think the GCG needs the same luv'n).

P.S. Good read above Dale!

I think it was a shit bearing set up. to tight? incorrectly inserted? im not sure, never saw it opened.

Turbo guy says, its a snapped blade on the fan, and due to this its unbalanced itself, and was rubbing and making that sound.

but neither of the above explains why it went aay on boost. Maybe car is to loud to notice, and I personally wasnt expecting to listen for anything.

So you have a 3.5mm banjo on the GCG? at the oil pressure your running now shouldnt that be too much for the turbo?

I'm also being told that I shouldnt be opening the banjo any more than 3mm or 1/8th for journal bearing. which means that 3.5 *must* be too much for the gcg BB core.

whats the size of Bnjo on the GCG Craig?

[Jetwreck]

I think it was a shit bearing set up. to tight? incorrectly inserted? im not sure, never saw it opened.

Turbo guy says, its a snapped blade on the fan, and due to this its unbalanced itself, and was rubbing and making that sound.

but neither of the above explains why it went aay on boost. Maybe car is to loud to notice, and I personally wasnt expecting to listen for anything.

So you have a 3.5mm banjo on the GCG? at the oil pressure your running now shouldnt that be too much for the turbo?

I'm also being told that I shouldnt be opening the banjo any more than 3mm or 1/8th for journal bearing. which means that 3.5 *must* be too much for the gcg BB core.

whats the size of Bnjo on the GCG Craig?

How do you snap a blade on the steel fan? low oil feed at idle explains it to me better than a freak blade breakage!

I don't know what GCG have as a restrictor.....I lost interest with GCG after they said there baring set for our turbo was only good to about 450HP....GCG say you don't have to do anything to our car....just bolt it up.....IMO that's wrong!....I have heard GCG unit's on other cars and they sound nothing like ours!....which leads me to the assumption that while I am sure GCG can build a very good turbo there thinking is typical of the rest of the numpty suppliers out there that have no idea about the VQ25DET motor!

Without doing an flow test with different restrictors who would know on our car what is the correct restrictor is to go with what combination! I'm just going off the info my turbo guy gave me when he handed me back the new unit!...and the previous result's found from someone else that did a flow test and had the same turbo as me!

Edited February 1, 2011 by Jetwreck