Quicker Steering For Skylines?

[PM-R33]

One thing that I have noticed with a couple of modern cars that I have driven recently (BMW 335i and Nissan 370Z) is their steering response is amazingly touchy. What I mean is you slightly turn the steering wheel and the car automatically responds and moves. I really like this

While our Skylines feel a hell of a lot better than a lot of other cars, after driving these more modern sports cars I feel like the Skyline just aint on par and feel a bit slow in steering feel.

A small factor would be going to a slightly smaller steering wheel but I was wondering if there is other options?

Now I understand that from the steering wheel shaft (wording?) to the steering rack there would be a sort of gearing that for "x" amount of steering wheel degrees you get "y" amount of wheel degrees. Is this something that you can change over? Is there aftermarket parts available to do this?

I have heard of drift cars doing something like this, however I am not sure exatly what is involved in doing it.

Any one that can shed a bit of light on this area? Has any one on here done this before? I did a bit of a search but couldn't really find anything. I may have been using wrong key words though.

Cheers

[blk94r33]

I think you might be opening a big can of worms trying something like this, and needless to say, any mod like that would make the steering heavier, but...

You could try and retro-fit a lower ratio rack, or..

The best way i could think of would be to "take" the tie rod end closer to the strut, by shortening the arm (or re-drilling the hole for the tie-rod end) on the hub that link the two. But i highly doubt it'd be legal (like anything), or the effect it'd have on steering angles/strength etc.

Make sense?

Edited January 31, 2011 by blk94r33

[blk94r33]

Also, after reading through your mods, how direct do you want to go???

I've done similar suspension work and know that the steering/handling/response feels very tight and direct compared to stock?

[PM-R33]

Hahaha yeah I figured it would probably be a lot of work and not really worth the headache. But just thought I would double check to see if there was some sort of mod to the steering rack that I wasn't aware of.

It isn't so much the handling, as I realise the 50:50 weight distribution and a lot of other factors allow those two cars to be so finely balanced, something a Skyline would never achieve. But I just really liked that the car turned a lot for the small amount of movement of the steering wheel.

Kind of the exact opposite of a 300ZX. Requires a shit load of steering wheel movement for it to even turn slightly.

[rb26zed]

You can get low ratio racks but not skyline specific. I have a 1.25 turns lock to lock power rack in my 240z, but this is a total custom job. Could be done in a skyline but would be difficult, expensive and illegal.

You could try searching other models of cars to find lower ratios. Unfortunately most cars are fairly similar to the skyline if not worse, so finding a better ratio would be rare. There would definitely be cars with better though, so it could be worth the look. The racks from the BMW and 370z would quite likely go into a skyline with some mods. Does a 350z feel as good as a 370z? 350z racks would be cheaper and easier to find.

Also the ratio has little to no effect on steering weight, this is controlled by the power system used.

[_Wing_]

I feel the same way with the steering and have asked the question, apparantly s13's? have a better ratio but in terms of making it work there was not much info. I've driven an s13 and the ratio is not as good as when I drive the evo around. I'm really interested to find out, keep me updated on what you find...

[mid life crisis]

in speedway we use a quicksteer either a 2.1 ratio or a 1.5 ratio illegal to use on a road car because you need to mount then inline with your steering coloum .

but on the track no hassles the do make ya steering a bit heavier. but if you have power steering it is no problem .....i also have 4 second units comming from the states in the next few weeks for the speedway and dirt circuit guys prob not a bad option on a dedicated track or drift car .

my last sedan based speedway car had less than a turn lock to lock

cheers dean

[blk94r33]

You can get low ratio racks but not skyline specific. I have a 1.25 turns lock to lock power rack in my 240z, but this is a total custom job. Could be done in a skyline but would be difficult, expensive and illegal.

You could try searching other models of cars to find lower ratios. Unfortunately most cars are fairly similar to the skyline if not worse, so finding a better ratio would be rare. There would definitely be cars with better though, so it could be worth the look. The racks from the BMW and 370z would quite likely go into a skyline with some mods. Does a 350z feel as good as a 370z? 350z racks would be cheaper and easier to find.

Also the ratio has little to no effect on steering weight, this is controlled by the power system used.

So your saying that by changing the steering rack, it'd have NO effect on the weight of the steering? The rack-ratio will definitely affect the steering.

Try lifting 250kg (item A) off the ground with a single pulley and rope (item B), then with a 3 pulley system, by changing the ratio you affect how much item B has to move to affect item A, but reduce the "effort", and vice versa... Similar to changing the diff ratio in a car, the tail-shaft needs to turn quicker to get the same wheel speed, but the car can accelerate quicker as the engine has more "power" over the diff. Or simpler again, try taking off in 5th instead of 1st...

There's alot of cars out there without power steering, but the steering is relatively light due to the gearing of the rack...

[blk94r33]

Hahaha yeah I figured it would probably be a lot of work and not really worth the headache. But just thought I would double check to see if there was some sort of mod to the steering rack that I wasn't aware of.

It isn't so much the handling, as I realise the 50:50 weight distribution and a lot of other factors allow those two cars to be so finely balanced, something a Skyline would never achieve. But I just really liked that the car turned a lot for the small amount of movement of the steering wheel.

Kind of the exact opposite of a 300ZX. Requires a shit load of steering wheel movement for it to even turn slightly.

I think it would be worth the effort. But like anything, modifying (cutting/welding/retro-fitting) suspension/steering components is hard to keep legal. But since you already have an after-market turbo, boost controller and NOS, I doubt you're fussed?

Finding a rack that has a lower ratio and bolts straight in would be the most straight-forward, failing that, getting new hubs made up (ie. CNC machined copies) with shorter arms between the knuckle and tie-rod end might be next? I don't think physically changing the ratio inside the steering rack would be easy...

[rb26zed]

If all things are kept the same except the ratio then yes it will get a little heavier, but that is very easily rectified with changes to the power system.

I doubt he is going to get a rack that is more than half a turn less than the standard one, so I was just keeping it simple rather than explaining complicated details that he is most likely not interested in.

Changing from his current rack to one a little better from another model of car is the simplest solution and won't affect steering weight enough for you to worry about. In my opinion the skyline, like most modern cars, has steering that is far too light. Making it a little heavier would be a good thing.

It is possible to do what you want if you find a rack with the ratio you like. If you do the work properly or get a professional to do it you should be able to keep it looking like factory, which is the next best thing to it being legal. Done properly an engineer may even give it the all clear.

Things to look for are keeping the pivot points on each side of the rack as close as possible to original, or ideally in line with the lower control arm inner pivot point. Then finding/making tie rods the right length that suit both the rack and the hub.

I suppose it depends how much you want this, and how much you're willing to spend to get it done. Definitely do-able. Possibly not too expensive either if you're lucky enough to find a rack that suits with very little mods needed. But if new mounts need to be welded to your crossmember, new parts need to be machined to get the pivot points right and custom tie rods are needed then it could get expensive.

[PM-R33]

Thanks for all the info guys, great help!

Obviously I don't want to muck around with it to much, but a rack swap over wouldn't be the end of the world. I'll look into it some more and see what I can find.

[Birds]

What exactly are you referring to Phil, steering response or steering ratio?

Response I would say refers to the time between you turning the wheel and the vehicle actually responding to this (in cars with power steering), or the distance (tolerance) you have to turn the steering wheel before the wheels actually start moving. Ratio on the other hand, is how far you have to turn the wheel to get the wheels facing a particular angle.

Ratio can only be adjusted changing steering racks / the worm gear in the standard one. Wheel toe can certainly affect how fast the car will turn in without changing the ratio itself. Size of the steering wheel won't change the ratio itself, but your hands will be able to get from lock to lock faster.

Response can be restored to factory or better response with new/adjustable tie rods...a new/reconditioned steering rack...and replacing steering rack mount bushes for polyurethane.

[PM-R33]

Steering ratio is what I mean, however response would also be a bonus. As in a small movement of the steering wheel gives a larger movement on the actual wheels of the car.

Example: In the 335i or the 370Z (I'm sure there are heaps of other new sports cars, but these two are the latest cars I have driven) you turn the wheel maybe 45 degrees and the car nearly does a 90 degree turn (figures are made up, but just trying to illustrate my point). So if you are driving fast through some twisties you aren't wrestling with the steering wheel changing hands etc.

A smaller steering wheel would help as dads 335i has a smaller steering wheel than the factory R33 S2 one, however obviously this is only a slight change to it all.

As I said, I assumed it is a bit of a strange thing to want and isn't a common mod, but just thought I would see what options there are and what people have done. I now know a lot more about it than I did before which is precisely the point of my thread

So to the steering rack bushes, you think this would help in "response"? Also toe on the front, we talking more toe out? I'll go check what my toe was set to last time I did an allignment.

[wlspn]

Keen on any info you find out about this also...

[tm_r33]

So to the steering rack bushes, you think this would help in "response"? Also toe on the front, we talking more toe out? I'll go check what my toe was set to last time I did an allignment.

harder steering rack bushes will help a little with the small delay between steering wheel inputs and actually when the front wheels start to move towards that angle..

and he means toe in not toe out mate

Edited February 1, 2011 by tm_r33

[Daleo]

http://www.howeperfo...ssories-new.htm

Part # 1110

Steering Speeder/Reducer 1.5:1 Ratio

Also available in 2:1 Ratio (Part # 1112).

Part # 1115

In-Line Stealth Steering Speeder/Reducer

Available in 2:1 Ratio only.

[Bronx]

or if you have the cash and can afford one of the Active Steering setups from any of the newer bmw's or mercede's you can try to convert that, while going fast, you need 2 full turns to get to lock, but while parking its just a 90 degree trun for lock to lock. i like it like that.

im also trying to find an adjustable Active Steering setup, so i can have it as normal steering or for drift/race have 90 degree steering, makes it soo much easier

[PM-R33]

Ah yep I noticed that on the BMW that the steering changed a hell of a lot while going at low speeds.

Definetely a lot of interesting suggestions. Glad i'm not the only one that has thought about doing something like this

[blk94r33]

What exactly are you referring to Phil, steering response or steering ratio?

.....

Ratio on the other hand, is how far you have to turn the wheel to get the wheels facing a particular angle.

Ratio can only be adjusted changing steering racks / the worm gear in the standard one.

....

Good point, I just assumed he meant ratio with the first post?

I still think shortening the hub-to-tie-rod end arm would be a step in the right direction, as it would effectively change the ratio without affecting the steering rack/mounting.

I.e. if a car has 2 turns from center to lock, causing the tie-rod end to move 8 inches (example only) causing the hub/wheel to rotate say 45 degrees, by shortening the hub-to-tie-rod-end arm, the tie rod would have to move less distance left/right (say 6 inches) for the same change in wheel angle, meaning the car would only have 1.5 turns from center to lock. Is this what you're after PM-R33?

Steering ratio is what I mean, however response would also be a bonus. As in a small movement of the steering wheel gives a larger movement on the actual wheels of the car.

....

Ah yep I noticed that on the BMW that the steering changed a hell of a lot while going at low speeds.

Definetely a lot of interesting suggestions. Glad i'm not the only one that has thought about doing something like this

A skyline with the steering ratio literally of a go-kart, surely some-one's thought of it?

[PM-R33]

Now we're cooking