Critique My Dyno Graph Gt3076R!

[SimonR32]

Pod is getting fed hot air that has passed through the radiator ahd/or hot air rising from the exhaust manifold...

Move the filter over towards the guard and you should get a better result

In saying that, it's not really that bad a result... Maybe 10-20hp shy of optimal!

[GTScotT]

Guys his issue is not necessarily the power, he is clearly asking an opinion on if the power is accurate. No arguments there the power is reasonable.

The issue is its wanting to ping.

I still stand by charge temps.

[Scradly]

17 deg at 7500rpm is about all you will get into an rb25.

No wonder it wants to ping if any more is put in.

My rb25 NEO has only 10deg @ 7500 and thats with 50% ethanol

Its making the correct amount of power for those mods and boost so why would you want to risk the

motor by adding more timing.

Mayby try 20psi and a bit less timing and see what you end up with.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Scradly

[Lithium]

Guys his issue is not necessarily the power, he is clearly asking an opinion on if the power is accurate. No arguments there the power is reasonable.

The issue is its wanting to ping.

I still stand by charge temps.

I think you are missing the point, basically 17deg is the most timing you should be able to get in there. He said that going higher resulted in knock, not that he was getting knock there.

The reason I asked what power and timing levels people are hitting in Oz with those setups and dynos is thats the best easy measure of where people are reaching the max stable cyl pressures as measured on a DD dyno with that fuel, so really there is no reason I can see that he should be trying to push timing further than that. He has reached the limit where everyone else has, so there is nothing different or wrong.

If he wants to push more timing into it than that (and the only reason you'd want to do so is to try and make more power) then he probably needs to look at an inherant change of some sort. The obvious/simplest one to go for is to get some alcohol into the fuel flow.

It'd naturally be a good idea to do whats possible to cool intake charge (as always) but going from other peoples results, all thats going to do is increase the safety margain.

[GTScotT]

Fair enough, I more so see it as the concern in ease of detonation.

I think its still fair to say that changing the position of the intake would assist in avoiding detonation yet would say its also fair to agree he has hit the ceiling as far as power developement will go.

[sriver killer]

Here we go, big post

The KLS cooler looks like a run of the mill china job. Decent enough for what your doing but hardly the bees knees.

Honestly, chuck it back on the dyno with your pod hanging out of the bonnet rather than under it. Instant answer for that one, yet guaranteed the intake temp on that would be 60 degrees on its own BEFORE its compressed IMO.

hardly the bees knees. For the price, I cannot complain.

That idea has merit, I am to make a cold air intake feeding behind my passenger side indicator. results will follow

checked your fuel filter lately? mine was blocked and was causing mine 2 lean out on dyno aswell. replaced pump first cause it was a bit noisey, but later decided to pull fuel filter off and i couldnt even blow thru it. problem fixed after that. also try a different CAS. mates 32 was making 450rwhp then next run 350 then 370 etc, replaced with a dif CAS and problem solved.

Fuel filter A- OK, definitely not starving of fuel

Thats what I was thinking too, glad I asked... I thought I might have been going mad or something.

I suspect there is no problem, the car is making what you'd expect on that boost, with that fuel, with that turbo

I think that its about right,

I got my setup dynoed on a 24 degree day

with the same turbo

internal gate

standard exhaust manifold

3 inch stainless dump and 3 inch stainless cat

and i was pulling consistent 285rwkw,

with about 10-20rwkw more midrange on the same boost, with 500rpm more lag

questioning whether or not the hot air will really cause that much loss, considering there isn;t much gain with a cai

One would think that 400rwhp should be a walk in the park,

Guys his issue is not necessarily the power, he is clearly asking an opinion on if the power is accurate. No arguments there the power is reasonable.

The issue is its wanting to ping.

I still stand by charge temps.

I was informed that they can normally get 25's to run 6 degree's more advance than what I am currently running.

Addmittedly, i took the car for a drive last nite and it was significantly better than day time.

Could come down to the cheap china cooler not being able to cool sufficiently in a 36 degree dyno. with only a dyno fan. Definitely flows though

17 deg at 7500rpm is about all you will get into an rb25.

No wonder it wants to ping if any more is put in.

My rb25 NEO has only 10deg @ 7500 and thats with 50% ethanol

Its making the correct amount of power for those mods and boost so why would you want to risk the

motor by adding more timing.

Mayby try 20psi and a bit less timing and see what you end up with.

I'll choose engine longevity over hp claim! ha

I think you are missing the point, basically 17deg is the most timing you should be able to get in there. He said that going higher resulted in knock, not that he was getting knock there.

The reason I asked what power and timing levels people are hitting in Oz with those setups and dynos is thats the best easy measure of where people are reaching the max stable cyl pressures as measured on a DD dyno with that fuel, so really there is no reason I can see that he should be trying to push timing further than that. He has reached the limit where everyone else has, so there is nothing different or wrong.

If he wants to push more timing into it than that (and the only reason you'd want to do so is to try and make more power) then he probably needs to look at an inherant change of some sort. The obvious/simplest one to go for is to get some alcohol into the fuel flow.

It'd naturally be a good idea to do whats possible to cool intake charge (as always) but going from other peoples results, all thats going to do is increase the safety margain.

The response I was given was to change fuel

Fair enough, I more so see it as the concern in ease of detonation.

I think its still fair to say that changing the position of the intake would assist in avoiding detonation yet would say its also fair to agree he has hit the ceiling as far as power developement will go.

It will lower intake temps from what. 60degrees to 35=40 degree's? ( not entirely sure)

I'm making a cai atm, I'm going to try two different designs

First is to sit the pod where it sits. inside a heat proofed paint tin with a 3 inch pipe running an air feed from my inner guard

best thing about this is i can fully enclose the pod. Although tin doesn;t dissipate heat as well as alumium, i left the Tin inside my engine bay for 10 mins after running and inside air was definitely alot cooler than engine bay temp

Other option is to run the pod all the way behind the drivers side light. and make an apology for a heat shield then run a 3 inch feed from underneath the guard,

Best thing about this is that the point of restriction (pod) is away from turbo, so air doesn;t bottle neck anywhere near the motor

downside is that i cannot entirely enclose the pod inside a paint tin xd so yes it will be sucking in a portion of engine bay air. not as hot as being above the extractors,

tho will still have cold feed to it.

Cold air intake the cure for pinging- it will certainly help, whether 10 or 20 degrees of lower intake temp is going to drop down combustion/ cyl heat (700 degrees) I'm doubtful

[The Dan]

Ok I'll try to cover a few things.

First of all: Forget the number at the top, how does it drive?

Second: I would expect the same from that turbo/boost etc, maybe 20-30hp more but you'd need around 2-4psi more boost and possibly some better injectors. Spray pattern to LOOK at is different from what the actual spray pattern is DOING. What looks ok isn't always ok.

Thirdly: You have the best tuner on the planet tuning it. There is no way you could do better/safer. The 11:1 is not a problem, tune it to 12:1 and I can guarantee it will make 5-10hp more but exhaust temps will skyrocket, especially on that turbo.

You could take it to any other tuner and get the printout that says 300rwkw but say goodbye to your engine before Easter I would imagine. 17 degrees is normal....Gervase, your's actually comes down to 15 at peak torque from memory

[The Dan]

And that air filter is likely to be taking very large gulps of hot air coming directly of runners 1,2 and 3 of the manifold. Bad for making power

[sriver killer]

Ok I'll try to cover a few things.

First of all: Forget the number at the top, how does it drive?

Second: I would expect the same from that turbo/boost etc, maybe 20-30hp more but you'd need around 2-4psi more boost and possibly some better injectors. Spray pattern to LOOK at is different from what the actual spray pattern is DOING. What looks ok isn't always ok.

Thirdly: You have the best tuner on the planet tuning it. There is no way you could do better/safer. The 11:1 is not a problem, tune it to 12:1 and I can guarantee it will make 5-10hp more but exhaust temps will skyrocket, especially on that turbo.

You could take it to any other tuner and get the printout that says 300rwkw but say goodbye to your engine before Easter I would imagine. 17 degrees is normal....Gervase, your's actually comes down to 15 at peak torque from memory

Ive only had it for two days. definitely gets the power down better than old setup

Took it for a spin at night and totally different car.

The fact that i can get it to the ground in second gear is wonderful. doesn;t ramp onto boost and go nowehere

Taking the car to Willowbank on sat. and test and tune next wednesday.

Will find out results at the test and tune 1/4 mile on wed night. Apart from that the car drives noticably better at night.

I'm suspect on injectors. and ideally I'm not going to know until i change them + retune xd

Tuner definitely did a top job, hats off to them ive got confidence that the tune is spot on. I can't fault anything done to the car.

Its always good to get multiple opinions!

so boy or girl ? congrats mate

[simpletool]

Sounds decent to me. At 16psi max my point on the map is 17° timing at 6400rpm (16° below this) making 310rwhp (smaller turbo).

That is an interesting boost line you have there mate...

Where are the rpms on the graph?

And I've never seen a dyno graph with kmp/h on the bottom before lol

Obviously you've seen naff all dyno graphs then. Boost line would look interesting if you've hardly seen any before. To me it looks fairly common, could be a bit flatter but nothing to write home about.

[sriver killer]

I've since relocated pod to behind front headlight. still unshielded, this ive run a 3 inch air feed from front bar to the pod

Also changed cas, old one died put new one in in exact same position and moved the timing curve 4 degree's. Had to reset.

marginal hp gain midrange from moving the pod, doesn't help peak hp though.

I was looking at ways to keep my engine cooler.

Standard radiators are good, next best thing would be oil cooler maybe?

[tridentt150v]

I've got the same turbo, and I have a CAI shield plus I've used a hole saw and put a couple of holes through the tinware to increase airflow from outside the engine bay. Doesn't make any difference, it still pings. Any time I feed it up a hill in third it pings. My solution was WMI, it doesn't ping anymore, all is happy fun times now!!!!

I'm not sure why, but sometimes the 3076 will ping. Sure you can make 300+rwkw, but it rattles like a train. I've cut timing out of mine, added fuel, and had it down to 270rwkw and it reduced the ping under power, but it still did it. I drove around for 12 months like this making sure I never used the power I had [even did some big trips]. I had it strapped to the dyno at three different tuners and none could stop it. I've got all the nismo pump/filter/blitz FMIC/tomei cams/HKS cast manifold extrude honed etc etc etc and it still pinged. Knock levels up to 130 if I wanted 'em and any time.

My solution was a SP stage 3 WMI kit.......knock levels below 10 now. Plus I've now got more power and better fuel economy to boot. And I use f'k all water meth, lucky to use 100cc in 500km [highway miles].

GL with yours, but if all else fails WMI is your friend.

[sriver killer]

I've got the same turbo, and I have a CAI shield plus I've used a hole saw and put a couple of holes through the tinware to increase airflow from outside the engine bay. Doesn't make any difference, it still pings. Any time I feed it up a hill in third it pings. My solution was WMI, it doesn't ping anymore, all is happy fun times now!!!!

I'm not sure why, but sometimes the 3076 will ping. Sure you can make 300+rwkw, but it rattles like a train. I've cut timing out of mine, added fuel, and had it down to 270rwkw and it reduced the ping under power, but it still did it. I drove around for 12 months like this making sure I never used the power I had [even did some big trips]. I had it strapped to the dyno at three different tuners and none could stop it. I've got all the nismo pump/filter/blitz FMIC/tomei cams/HKS cast manifold extrude honed etc etc etc and it still pinged. Knock levels up to 130 if I wanted 'em and any time.

My solution was a SP stage 3 WMI kit.......knock levels below 10 now. Plus I've now got more power and better fuel economy to boot. And I use f'k all water meth, lucky to use 100cc in 500km [highway miles].

GL with yours, but if all else fails WMI is your friend.

Its looking like that is my next option, I'd prefer that to E85. How have you set your WMI up. I could toss up with the idea of water injection.

Your in the same boat as me, Started to think that I was the the only 3076r to not make 300rwkw

Strangely enough, it wasn;t until i bought a 3076r that i hear that what I hear my problem is common. around 280rwkw. I

6boost gave me 300-400rpm more response, expensive excercise to gain only a little.

do 35 82R's have this same sort of problem? Does the difference in wheel size keep the air alot cooler?

Ive got a kls power spirit intercooler, flows good though i think cooling wise unles its night time it doesn't do much. What intercooler do you run?

[tridentt150v]

Its looking like that is my next option, I'd prefer that to E85. How have you set your WMI up. I could toss up with the idea of water injection.

Your in the same boat as me, Started to think that I was the the only 3076r to not make 300rwkw

Strangely enough, it wasn;t until i bought a 3076r that i hear that what I hear my problem is common. around 280rwkw. I

6boost gave me 300-400rpm more response, expensive excercise to gain only a little.

do 35 82R's have this same sort of problem? Does the difference in wheel size keep the air alot cooler?

Ive got a kls power spirit intercooler, flows good though i think cooling wise unles its night time it doesn't do much. What intercooler do you run?

Questions questions..........

35's I have no experience, cannot answer

as per first post Blitz FMIC an LM [i think they call them].

I did a write up some time ago on my WMI install:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/306109-my-wmi-install/page__hl__wmi+install

[Rolls]

looks decent to me, but simple solution is tune for E85 with new injectors.

[tridentt150v]

looks decent to me, but simple solution is tune for E85 with new injectors.

If your in town, or don't drive west of the Great Divide E85 could be the answer.........unfortunately not for me, I don't know of any servo selling it. It'd take me half a day's driving just to get to one. Then if you go on a drive across this big baked land you will conk out somewhere the other side of Hayseed, maybe Killer is in that category???

[KiwiRS4T]

That is an interesting boost line you have there mate...

Where are the rpms on the graph?

And I've never seen a dyno graph with kmp/h on the bottom before lol

You've led a very sheltered life.

[sriver killer]

If your in town, or don't drive west of the Great Divide E85 could be the answer.........unfortunately not for me, I don't know of any servo selling it. It'd take me half a day's driving just to get to one. Then if you go on a drive across this big baked land you will conk out somewhere the other side of Hayseed, maybe Killer is in that category???

ha I'm in too deep to change my username =[

E85 is def not the answer, skyline is my daily driver and long distanace hauler. Thus water injection being a more sensible approach

I'm going to look in your thread, did it keep combustion temps down?

[tridentt150v]

ha I'm in too deep to change my username =[

E85 is def not the answer, skyline is my daily driver and long distanace hauler. Thus water injection being a more sensible approach

I'm going to look in your thread, did it keep combustion temps down?

TBH I have no idea, I never looked.....but knock went from +130 to under 10 so its working fine and I'm happy.

[hypergear]

little technical hint which I usually don't give out. By increasing the clearance of the blow nozzle of the turbine housing to turbine wheel can reduce EGT at high RPMs.