Max Power For Rb26 Block

[Beer Baron]

they are different off the top of my head. the reason is 30 block and 26 block is different so the block side is different. 2WD 30 and AWD 30 is the same from memory just with different fitting kit.

but if you want to check confirm it with herman @ envy. but I'm 90% sure 26 AWD is different to the 30AWD plate. they are a great piece of gear. made from billet alloy and machined here in sydney (not CHINA!). just buying the stock of billet alloy that big is not cheap and there is a shitload of waste material...

[Beer Baron]

good talk kids! i'm going home now.

[zebra]

yep works with factory girdle. so does the 30 block/26 sump version. it acts as the sump adapter and block strengthener in one thing. I have seen other guys go to billet mains and chuck out the stock girdle which is a backwards step in my eyes. I saw an engine recently pulled down (a 30/26) with custom mains and girdle with a brack kind of like the PREC but it had bad bearing wear from crank walk.

how this one works is the factory girdle gets a flat surface machined into it (any competent machinist can do it). the girdle is still proud of the block (obviously) and you are mounting the PREC to the block factory sump bolts, and then it also bolts to the factory girdle (but not interfering with the factory main bolts). the 26 sump then bolts to the PREC and from memory you have a few bolts that go through both sump and PREC for more strength. it's a nice piece of gear.

nope, as above it works WITH factory main caps and girdle. just with a flat surface machined onto the bottom of the girdle for the PREC to mate with.

if you want to buy one direct contact herman @ envy imports (they are Platinum Racing products).

if anyone's really interested I have the instruction manual here somewhere I can email you. it explains how to fit one and thereby explains how it works. the extra width gives you a bit more sump oil too (need to consider spacing or lengthening oil pick-up a little if no sump baffles etc are fitted - many just go external pick-up anyway though).

Ahk fair enough, needs a side on view.

If you get a chance flick me the manual or some pics if you have them handy Rich

[marksuxass]

If you can source one, maybe even get on older rb26 out of an older r32 gtr. Apparently they have a higher nickel content much like the N1 block, minus the water galleries. And for a fraction of the cost too. This was endless-r's plan of a attack a few years ago with a clients car...

[R31Nismoid]

the other option till now as grout fill the block (not practical for a road car or circuit car, really for drag only).

I would very much disagree with that comment.

You'd be surprised how many builders around Aus are putting quite a substancial amount of filler into the blocks once you start asking them about it.

Depending on the builder it seems to be anywhere from 30-40% without any cooling issues what so ever. These are for street/circuit motors.

No doubt there are other mods going on at the same time given N1 blocks still have the oiling issues and so on which doesnt neccesarily make them a "winning" option for this guys specific question/application.

Dedicated 'trailer' drag motors seem to get a bit more grout again for obvious reasons.

Not saying the part doesn't serve a purpose or anything like that but it would seem a $1200 part just for block rigidty device is expensive when you take into account it's @ the bottom of the motor where grout will actually fill the problem area(s).

Also not forgetting the stock RB26 sump also add's quite a bit of strength to it all as it is (when you compare to say, RB25 sumps).

Problems also arise with aftermarket sumps that don't incorporate the stock sump level of strength/support as some aftermarkets sumps out there would appear not to have simply because of thier design, thicknesses and so on. Kinda a side issue but relevant none the less.

End of the day - ask yourself this:

When was the last time you heard someone making 400-450rwkw needing extra support on a normal RB26 block?

[tricstar]

I would very much disagree with that comment.

You'd be surprised how many builders around Aus are putting quite a substancial amount of filler into the blocks once you start asking them about it.

Depending on the builder it seems to be anywhere from 30-40% without any cooling issues what so ever. These are for street/circuit motors.

No doubt there are other mods going on at the same time given N1 blocks still have the oiling issues and so on which doesnt neccesarily make them a "winning" option for this guys specific question/application.

Dedicated 'trailer' drag motors seem to get a bit more grout again for obvious reasons.

Not saying the part doesn't serve a purpose or anything like that but it would seem a $1200 part just for block rigidty device is expensive when you take into account it's @ the bottom of the motor where grout will actually fill the problem area(s).

Also not forgetting the stock RB26 sump also add's quite a bit of strength to it all as it is (when you compare to say, RB25 sumps).

Problems also arise with aftermarket sumps that don't incorporate the stock sump level of strength/support as some aftermarkets sumps out there would appear not to have simply because of thier design, thicknesses and so on. Kinda a side issue but relevant none the less.

End of the day - ask yourself this:

When was the last time you heard someone making 400-450rwkw needing extra support on a normal RB26 block?

when you say grout fill, what do they fill to make that much difference to block strength ?

[R31Nismoid]

http://www.google.com.au/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=grout+filling+RB26+block&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=961c740466eb217a

[tricstar]

http://www.google.co...61c740466eb217a

yeah I should have done that, ok now I know what it is and quite a few people swear by it, could be worth looking at

[bigmikespec]

I would very much disagree with that comment.

You'd be surprised how many builders around Aus are putting quite a substancial amount of filler into the blocks once you start asking them about it.

Depending on the builder it seems to be anywhere from 30-40% without any cooling issues what so ever. These are for street/circuit motors.

No doubt there are other mods going on at the same time given N1 blocks still have the oiling issues and so on which doesnt neccesarily make them a "winning" option for this guys specific question/application.

Dedicated 'trailer' drag motors seem to get a bit more grout again for obvious reasons.

Not saying the part doesn't serve a purpose or anything like that but it would seem a $1200 part just for block rigidty device is expensive when you take into account it's @ the bottom of the motor where grout will actually fill the problem area(s).

Also not forgetting the stock RB26 sump also add's quite a bit of strength to it all as it is (when you compare to say, RB25 sumps).

Problems also arise with aftermarket sumps that don't incorporate the stock sump level of strength/support as some aftermarkets sumps out there would appear not to have simply because of thier design, thicknesses and so on. Kinda a side issue but relevant none the less.

End of the day - ask yourself this:

When was the last time you heard someone making 400-450rwkw needing extra support on a normal RB26 block?

Everything you said is right Nismoid. I think the brace's purpose might be for those who wish to utilise high rpm like 9krpm or more without a fully counterweighted crank. It is fact that the long straight six crank can move around (in a bad way) at high rpm and cause block issues.

Making 400-450kW reliably is the key

[Beer Baron]

I can find quite a few examples of cracked 26 blocks with 400-450kw. it's a bit of lucky dip. it's not exactly 'common' but it does happen. mostly between 3 and 4 and if it's bad other stuff can go down with it costing you more money.

I'm not sure about how much strength the 26 sump has. it's part of the problem in that it's one big heavy piece that also contains front diff which is transmitting torque through to the front wheels. with no bracing through the centre. completely open. there is no doubt for a high power high revving engine the brace like the PREC adds a lot of rigidity and definitely helps with bearing wear in a big power big rev engine.

yeah grout filling is great but the fact is you can only go so high before you are left with no water galleries and no more water cooling. fine for a drag car but just not practical for a road or track car. the point is if you only fill a bit you only get a bit of the benfit. to really stifen things up you need to go to the top of the water galleries. but it does work quite well.

[tricstar]

you don't have to be making big power for the block to crack, I had one crack between 3-4 only running 400rwhp in a series 3 R33 GTR

horses for courses I guess, not sure which way I'll go, just have to talk to whoever I get to build the bottom end, see what they have experience with.

good info, thanks guys

[Beer Baron]

you don't have to be making big power for the block to crack, I had one crack between 3-4 only running 400rwhp in a series 3 R33 GTR

horses for courses I guess, not sure which way I'll go, just have to talk to whoever I get to build the bottom end, see what they have experience with.

good info, thanks guys

exactly, they can and do crack. it's a bit of a lucky dip. grain structure etc, fatigue is impossible to predict without serious testing so if you're building a big motor it makes sense to do as much as you can to keep the thing from cracking.

N1 blocks are definitely stronger than standard blocks. early model R32 block can be good too (partly due to the castings but also partly because by now they are well 'seasoned' over many heat cycles) but again you can get a bad one. the best way to make it strong is something like the PREC that builds on the factory girdle or the grout filling if that's suitable for your engine (or even both).

a mate has even cracked his GT ($$$) block (also between 3 and 4 on the exhaust side) but it was precipitated by a fairly big hit into a wall at eastern creek that would have damaged it without it being obvious at the time.

the best thing about the PREC is that it doesn't wear out so you could theoretically use it in build after build after build.

[tricstar]

alright a little off topic but while I have the brains trust reading this, I would welcome your opinions;

due to some piston damage in my RB28 I have to replace pistons, and probably bearings etc etc along with possible bore and block strengthening.

So I'm in the position where it is going to cost about the same to rebuild the 28 as it is to buy a forged RB30 bottomend from someone like proengines, then I could even be less out of pocket if I sold the 28 crank etc

thoughts, what would you do ??

[R31Nismoid]

you don't have to be making big power for the block to crack, I had one crack between 3-4 only running 400rwhp in a series 3 R33 GTR

horses for courses I guess, not sure which way I'll go, just have to talk to whoever I get to build the bottom end, see what they have experience with.

good info, thanks guys

I've seen a few blocks crackalso, round the 300-350rwkw mark.

however key point was they were stock motors/blocks.

I've not seen however, a grout/prepd stock block crack upto 440rwkw.

Now, you have others here as well like Matt, Aaron, Marko, Steve, Paul etc running 2.8-3lt... And 400-450rwkw. None have split a prep'd block either yet...

Lots of guys running 10s and 9s in street driven cars that aren't totally filled etc.

End of ghetto day you can never say

it can't happen, but i think if IT IS gonna happen, it will happen REGARDLESS if you have this 1200 part or not as its potentially more to do with block casting/conditioning and the prep supporting a block that is

less likely to crack in the first place.

[Nee-san]

sell the crank, dont look back, unless you REALLY want to rev the thing.

[tricstar]

sell the crank, dont look back, unless you REALLY want to rev the thing.

well I only have limiter set at 8500rpm anyway, and the 26/30 should do that, yeah

[marksuxass]

has anyone seen them crank under the turbos near one of the welsh plugs? Ive seen one cracked soo severly it pop the plug out.

[Nee-san]

I honestly have never seen one cracked :S

[Piggaz]

I've seen a few blocks crackalso, round the 300-350rwkw mark.

however key point was they were stock motors/blocks.

I've not seen however, a grout/prepd stock block crack upto 440rwkw.

Now, you have others here as well like Matt, Aaron, Marko, Steve, Paul etc running 2.8-3lt... And 400-450rwkw. None have split a prep'd block either yet...

Lots of guys running 10s and 9s in street driven cars that aren't totally filled etc.

End of ghetto day you can never say

it can't happen, but i think if IT IS gonna happen, it will happen REGARDLESS if you have this 1200 part or not as its potentially more to do with block casting/conditioning and the prep supporting a block that is

less likely to crack in the first place.

The previous owner of my car (Mik) first built the engine with the Tomei stroker in the stock 05U block which was a 1997 block and cracked between 3 and 4 (370 rwkw IIRC). I have heard rumours over the years the last of the 33 blocks wernt as strong as the earlier ones.... He then pulled it back out and chucked the internals into a GT block. No problems since. Now I know a GT block is a heap stronger then the stocker but im sure if there was a issue with how Mik built the engine it would have cracked this bad boy too. Its done a few trackdays and basically gets flogged everytime it gets started.

[R31Nismoid]

Ah didn't realise you weren't stock block