What Anti Roll Bars & Camber Arms Do You Motorsport Guys Use

[OLLIE_NZ]

Hey fellas,

Hoping to get some more front camber and a touch less roll for the R32 GTR and was wondering what the likes of you motorsport guys use (Roy, Beer Baron, Marlin etc).

I've done some searching but don't seem to be able to find any clear answers on good brands.

There's a tonne of Japanese brands, whiteline etc but am hoping to get some feed back from guys who race/ take their cars out on the track.

Cheers,

Ollie.

Edited February 26, 2011 by OLLIE_NZ

[zebra]

Do you want adjustable arms or just bushes.

For arms it is very hard to go past Ikeya Formula but will pay through the nose for their quality.

I'm not 100% sure but most of the Jap brand sway bars are non adjustable.

[OLLIE_NZ]

^^

Thanks for the reply mate.

We're after some adjustable arms.

[zebra]

Cool, the cheapy ones are ok....ish...but weigh a tonne (my cheapy front arms were more than double the weight of the standard ones) and the bearings flog out pretty quick.

I dont have any experience with Cusco products but I hear they are ok.

[Duncan]

upper arms for a 32gtr are a nightmare. especially if you run a bit of extra caster as well.

I have to run standard arms and can have adjustable bushes...so that's what I run. But I have to replace the bushes every 3-4 race meets

[djr81]

upper arms for a 32gtr are a nightmare. especially if you run a bit of extra caster as well.

I have to run standard arms and can have adjustable bushes...so that's what I run. But I have to replace the bushes every 3-4 race meets

Duncan is right the front arms on an R32 are a horror story. If you just use the Whiteline bushes & go near a track you destroy the bushes unless you keep the stock castor rods. Even then I am not sure they last very well.

This is what I did.

Bought the Nismo front end suspension link kit. This gets you a longer LCA (which helps a little), a revised upper link mounting bracket (which helps eliminate the too much castor trashing bushes issue) and a castor rod which I didn't use.

Then having given up trying to find anything decent I had some upper arms made & used a Whiteline bush kit. That way you get to choose the castor & the camber. If you want the thing to be half decent on the track without resorting to stupid spring rates you will need over four degrees of each.

Sway bars are Cusco rear & Whiteline front. The Whiteline ones are a bit crap because they are solid bar & weigh a tonne. Cusco & Nismo (I think) ones are atleast hollow but are non adjustable. The adjustability on the Whiteline ones is a bit bullshit anyway becasue the front is always full soft & the rear full hard.

You also need an attessa controller (for more front bias) which allows you to run a harder rear spring for a little less understeer.

Not sure which Cusco arms are being referred to (Above, a couple posts back) but they weight a tonne and use bearing which I would imagine would last atleast 5 minutes. I have a pair with stuffed bearings in the shed at home. I wouldn't recommend them.

Edited February 28, 2011 by djr81

[Beer Baron]

I'll echo what the other guys said. front upper arms are a pain in a 32 if you plan on running decent castor and camber at the same time. the castor basically subjects the upper arm to a twisting motion and it flogs out whatever bush or bearing is in there.

depends how hardcore you want to go and what the budget is. I'll give you 2 options.

budget option:

get standard front upper arms cut and shut (shorter = more camber) and add adjustable bushes to fine tune (whatever brand you want). also add some grease nipples so you can lube the bushes with arms on the car.

get some whiteline swaybars front and rear (I agree with DJR, I had them on one of my 32s and only ever ran full soft front and full hard rear, tried other settings but just made it want to push understeer into the corner and mid corner)

get cusco castor rods. good value, have proper 3 piece steel rods ends (not cast) and have good dust boots. and are cheapish.

the $$$ option is:

stick with the upper arms mentioned above, or run the noltec arms (may be out of production, I have a set and they have by far lasted the longest, they are a sliding style arm and have grease nipples built in, keeping the bushes lubed seems to keep them alive much longer). The cusco arms are fixed length and are ok (i have them on my other 32) but not fantastic for the money, same goes with the ikeya upper arms.

get some front lower control arms. ikeya are the best by far and incorporate new castor rods too so you don't need to buy others. this means you can adjust camber with the lower arm too, and even get a bit more front track if you have an adjustable upper arm to go with it.

get either cusco sway bars (good option, lightweight, not too expnesive but not adjustable), or if money is no object get the ARC bars (stupid expensive but excellent and come with rose jointed adjustable links which work very well - i have these on my other 32).

as far as brands go, all the cheap chinese arms that are dog bone shaped are pretty rubbish. they are usually too long so when you wind them in the two ends touch inside the cuff which means they need cutting, on top of that I've had one set and the bearings lasted literally about 300km on road and 1 track day. they look like they use skateboard wheel bearings!

jap brands, basically all the ikeya formula gear works well and is built to withstand nuclear blasts. most of the serious track cars (that aren't restricted by rules) use their arms in aus and in japan. I have supplied heaps of guys in aus with ikeya gear and they last long enough to go from car to car...

cusco gear is a bit more entry level but these days is nicely made and well designed and lasts pretty well. fairly good value.

ARC sway bars are nice but their other suspension gear is a bit dated now. well they make nice strut braces but they do the job no better than your average $100 one. not sure strut braces even count as suspension parts...

most of the other brands I steer away from. there's some good 'boutique' type brands like nagisa auto etc but basically everything you need can be bought from ikeya formula and/or cusco.

[djr81]

Just a couple of things to note about the upper arms:

There are TWO measurements you need to think about. The first is obvious - the length of the arms. The second less so. As you can see from the photo the arm is not straight - the outside pivot is forward of the inside pivot.

From right to left the arms are:

1 Standard. 182mm long (from memory) and has an offset of about 15mm

2. Cusco that is 10mm shorter than stock & with an offset of 22mm for LESS castor hence less load on the bearings (in this case)

3. Shorter arm I had made to basically replicate the Cusco dims but use Whiteline bushes.

4. Shorter (again) arm with less offset.

The thing is you can only run such an offset with the modified inner mounting bracket from Nismo otherwise it just tears itself to bits.

Also the white bush you can see is one turned up out of Nylon because the Whiteline one is too soft & keeps failing. Nylon hasnt given up yet after alot of track days.

[Beer Baron]

yeah well explained. so basically with the nismo inner arm mounts due to how they are inclined a bit towards the front of the car you can run arms with less offset yeah? so the 'twist' is taken up in the bracket not the arm?

I like the idea of nylon bushes. I like your djr81 mk 3 arms, with short length and less offset. I guess it explains why the cusco arms live longer as with more offset they effectively steal a bit of castor in favour of keeping their bearings from failing.

I wish you could just purchase the bloody nismo inner mounts separately. I guess the LCA is useful too but if you already have say ikeya LCA's it's a lot to spend just to get 2 brackets. I have seen what looked like modified standard brackets before too and to go 1 step further I've seen a 32 with 33 style upright and upper arm which is an even better solution as you can adjust both sides of the arm however you wish to give it camber whilst keeping it moving through a nice straight arc.

[djr81]

yeah well explained. so basically with the nismo inner arm mounts due to how they are inclined a bit towards the front of the car you can run arms with less offset yeah? so the 'twist' is taken up in the bracket not the arm?

Yeah the rear of the two drilled holes is lower and the front ones are closer to the centre. So the arm (bushes really) is loaded less with more castor.

The wheel needs to sit in the middle of the wheel arch so as the castor angle increases the amount of twist increases. Less castor (like Cusco arms) less load.

I like the idea of nylon bushes. I like your djr81 mk 3 arms, with short length and less offset. I guess it explains why the cusco arms live longer as with more offset they effectively steal a bit of castor in favour of keeping their bearings from failing.

The nylon bush was a cheap and nasty fix that I got done for beer. Turns out it was a permanent fix. You only need one per side.

I wish you could just purchase the bloody nismo inner mounts separately. I guess the LCA is useful too but if you already have say ikeya LCA's it's a lot to spend just to get 2 brackets. I have seen what looked like modified standard brackets before too and to go 1 step further I've seen a 32 with 33 style upright and upper arm which is an even better solution as you can adjust both sides of the arm however you wish to give it camber whilst keeping it moving through a nice straight arc.

The cost of the Nismo bits is pretty stupid given:

1. The bracket is a stock bracket with different drill holes and a coat of silver paint.

2. The LCA is a stock bit with the outer pick up point moved 5mm or so outwards. Also painted silver.

3. The castor rod is a stock item but a few mm shorter & you guessed it, painted silver.

But they fix problems, increase castor & camber so in the end you take the pain. The worst of it is ripping out the ABS unit just to get the LHS one in and having to bleed the brakes.

[Kaido_RR]

As djr81 mention the nismo gear is nice but very $$$ and the adjustment it gives you is still very limited

Nismo give the follow specs for the Circuit Link Set

Changes

* Effective length of the tension rod has been shortened (-5mm) to provide optimum caster angle.

* Effective length of transverse link has been lengthened (+4mm) to provide optimal camber angle.

*The position of the installation holes on the upper arm of the upper link bracket has been changed to restrict the twisting that can result from high caster position, and provide optimal camber angle.

* Changes in alignment, on standard vehicle height (Designed value):

Caster angle: Before installation: 3°40’; after installation: 4°25’

Camber angle: Before installation: -0°55’; after installation: -1°25’

The figures above may vary by ±0.45, depending on individual vehicle characteristics.

I just pick myself up a second hand Link Set plus upper arm from japan and price was still well over $500 for all the gear (FYI brand new the Link set not inc the upper arm is around 90,000yen And i am unsure if you can still buy the nismo upper arm)

For Swaybar if you want adjustable and willing to pay the extra cash go ARC, however you are looking at around $1000 for both the F and R sway bar. Cusco is alot better price at around $400-$500ish for the set. Nismo are alittle more $$$ around $600 (ran nismo sway bars on my previous track car gts-t and found them to be great)

Pic of the Ikeya fourmula upper arm to compare to the nismo one

BTW Ollie, what suspension will you be running and spring rate?

Edited February 28, 2011 by Kaido_RR

[Kaido_RR]

Also go over to the ikeya Formula website http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/en/index.html they have some interesting information regarding they arms set. If i was going full out i would use the Ikeya Formula gear however it will not be cheap

Edited February 28, 2011 by Kaido_RR

[djr81]

Back in the olden days Nismo did actually make an adjustable arm. Now all it appears to be is a stock unit with harder bushes = waste of money.

But that does help make sense of some of the references in the Nismo cattle dogs.

[Kaido_RR]

Back in the olden days Nismo did actually make an adjustable arm. Now all it appears to be is a stock unit with harder bushes = waste of money.

But that does help make sense of some of the references in the Nismo cattle dogs.

wonder why nismo went to non-adjustable arm. From everything i read adjustable arms are no good due to the vibration losing the adjustable nuts? true or myth ?

[Beer Baron]

Yeah the rear of the two drilled holes is lower and the front ones are closer to the centre. So the arm (bushes really) is loaded less with more castor.

The wheel needs to sit in the middle of the wheel arch so as the castor angle increases the amount of twist increases. Less castor (like Cusco arms) less load.

The nylon bush was a cheap and nasty fix that I got done for beer. Turns out it was a permanent fix. You only need one per side.

The cost of the Nismo bits is pretty stupid given:

1. The bracket is a stock bracket with different drill holes and a coat of silver paint.

2. The LCA is a stock bit with the outer pick up point moved 5mm or so outwards. Also painted silver.

3. The castor rod is a stock item but a few mm shorter & you guessed it, painted silver.

But they fix problems, increase castor & camber so in the end you take the pain. The worst of it is ripping out the ABS unit just to get the LHS one in and having to bleed the brakes.

you forgot they also have harder bushes in the castor rod, not just silver paint and a few lass mm!

yeah the only bit I want is the mounts too. they are a FKER to get out if you are lazy like me and don't want to remove other gear. as you found out nissan decided to utilise the nice big studs they are mounted with to bolt the ABS to the inner guard. thanks a lot!! and trying to get a spanner onto those nuts on the pass side is not easy from memory.

the old nismo arms should be quite useful if anyone could find some that were still in good shape and providing they go short enough.

[Beer Baron]

wonder why nismo went to non-adjustable arm. From everything i read adjustable arms are no good due to the vibration losing the adjustable nuts? true or myth ?

kaido, if vibration causing nuts and bolts to undo was a serious problem we'd all be fcked with wheels falling off and cars rattling to pieces. I've run sliding arms with bolts for years without them slipping. nissan just switched to the tight arse option of re-selling stock arms with harder bushes (painted silver). the other problem with all the nismo bits is NONE are adjustable so you just have to close your eyes and hope like hell they are perfect for your car, ride height, driving style, spring rate and type of tyre.....ummm. saves on alignment though as you can't change anything except F+R toe and rear camber (just like standard).

[Kaido_RR]

kaido, if vibration causing nuts and bolts to undo was a serious problem we'd all be fcked with wheels falling off and cars rattling to pieces. I've run sliding arms with bolts for years without them slipping. nissan just switched to the tight arse option of re-selling stock arms with harder bushes (painted silver). the other problem with all the nismo bits is NONE are adjustable so you just have to close your eyes and hope like hell they are perfect for your car, ride height, driving style, spring rate and type of tyre.....ummm. saves on alignment though as you can't change anything except F+R toe and rear camber (just like standard).

cheers. It was a gamble for me to go the nismo gear.. I didn't want to spend the big bucks to kit out everything in Ikeya but i wanted some improvement over the std gear hopefully the nismo gear gives me that little extra.

Little off topic but what do you guys run in the rear? After installing my suspension and and adjusting the height i have way to much camber in the rear (2 degree+), which i am surprise as the car isn't that low

[Beer Baron]

if on a budget in the rear go cusco rear upper arms and ikeya traction rods (or any brand traction rod really, just that from memory cusco don't make 32 ones, if the do now just get both in cusco).

rear camber is adjustable from the factory though (not much). have you adjusted it out using that? still if you have over 2 degrees neg the factory adjustment won't be enough to get to a more sensible amount. again though it depends on what tyres you're running.

[djr81]

cheers. It was a gamble for me to go the nismo gear.. I didn't want to spend the big bucks to kit out everything in Ikeya but i wanted some improvement over the std gear hopefully the nismo gear gives me that little extra.

Little off topic but what do you guys run in the rear? After installing my suspension and and adjusting the height i have way to much camber in the rear (2 degree+), which i am surprise as the car isn't that low

You can use the Whiteline kit on the rear on both the inner & outer pivots. Also on the traction arms which is sort of a good idea to reduce bump steer although to be honest I never really had an issue with it.

Anyway if you use the bushes set the outer ones to as long an effective length as you can. Reason being that once they are on the car they are a complete &$%^ to adjust with the wheels on. Which they will be if you are trying to align the thing.

But having done all that you will struggle to get down to -1.5 degrees.

So aftermarket is not such a bad idea.

[turboedsloth]

Is the ISC gear in the same boat as the cheap chinese stuff?