R34 Gtr Build

[BOBBYr34]

-ok the pictures tell me its the orginal cylinder on that ski. it has a limited spec factory b-pipe with a twist girdle head. the twist girdle head was made by msd back in the day.

48s are a bit harder to tune but when tuned right will give you alot of torque. Its stands to reason that the 38s will require smaller jets as the engine is bigger and the air speed in the 38s is higher then the 701 engine they came off. Thats the old r&d intake manifold on there and thats why it didnt go as well as it could of with the 48s, did the 48s have a purple top on them. If so it was buckshots and should be placed in a bin hahaha. they were good in there day but that was a long time ago.

Efr borgwarner turbos are just new out (2011) and have been totally redesigned for a performance car application, i suggest you look at this. f1 cars had turbos banned in 1989 thats 22 years ago, there has been alot of development since that time.

Go here and you will see the efr turbos and there specs. I suggest you get John to have a good look at it

A stroker will have more torque I agree but if your spending 10 on an exhaust manifold I am at a loss why you wouldnt use the benefit of the v-cam as well as the stroker. you can also use a more aggressive camshaft and get more up top than you could by using the camshafts you have now. variable cam timing is about giving you the best of both worlds. You could buy a blank of hks and get your specs ground on to the cam.

Yes it was an old setup now its alot better then the Purple 48mm carbs lol

I just had a look at the borg waner website will show john the turbo's. What want you to do is find me F1 turbo cause you wont find one as they have all been destroyed for a reason so onw would benefit. I know its 22 year technology but its still the best turbo chargers around according what john has said.

I agree with you with the V-cam setup i can suggest it to him again will see what john has to say again.

[waxracing]

Its all good its an interesting discussion. I applaud what you are doing with you car.

Those were buckshot carbs on an old r&d manifold its just asking to blow your ski up. Good thing getting rid of those

[zebra]

Yes it was an old setup now its alot better then the Purple 48mm carbs lol

I just had a look at the borg waner website will show john the turbo's. What want you to do is find me F1 turbo cause you wont find one as they have all been destroyed for a reason so onw would benefit. I know its 22 year technology but its still the best turbo chargers around according what john has said.

I agree with you with the V-cam setup i can suggest it to him again will see what john has to say again.

Can still buy the Turbos Honda F1 Used (more of less) they were IHI Rx-6's

Much better turbos out now the RX-6 design was the 1st of the "modern ball bearing Turbo"

[BOBBYr34]

Can still buy the Turbos Honda F1 Used (more of less) they were IHI Rx-6's

Much better turbos out now the RX-6 design was the 1st of the "modern ball bearing Turbo"

Can you send me the link or tell me where to buy it from i want to see if it is the right one

[zebra]

http://finelineimports.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_18_123_321&products_id=370

Its very hard to find good info on them,

As you can see Apexi sold them in a few different specs.

You would just need to try and find out what Trims the F1 cars had (the Honda was a Twin turbo V6 and only 1.5L) so not really applicable to a 2.6L engine.

Also the F1 cars ran on Rocket fuel (something like 50% tolulene and mega awesome petroleum)

They are a very nice turbo though (in any trim) I feel they are only bettered by the New Borg Warner EFR stuff in 75% of applications)

[zebra]

Just found this shity comp map for one of Power Enterprises version

and here is the Honda F1 V6

[BOBBYr34]

http://finelineimpor...products_id=370

Its very hard to find good info on them,

As you can see Apexi sold them in a few different specs.

You would just need to try and find out what Trims the F1 cars had (the Honda was a Twin turbo V6 and only 1.5L) so not really applicable to a 2.6L engine.

Also the F1 cars ran on Rocket fuel (something like 50% tolulene and mega awesome petroleum)

They are a very nice turbo though (in any trim) I feel they are only bettered by the New Borg Warner EFR stuff in 75% of applications)

Most of the F1 turbos were made by garrett and they were kept a secret for a long time. Housing were made from inconel and a very thin casting.

I will look into the borg warner as i have mentioned, remember i bought that turbo 4.5 years ago.

[BOBBYr34]

Just found this shity comp map for one of Power Enterprises version

and here is the Honda F1 V6

WOW now thats the shit have a look at the rear housing compared to the compressor housing, Interesting compare to what i am using My rear housing is only 0.68 and i have a 0.58

[zebra]

Yeah well its only 750cc per turbo and they made around 1100hp in Qualifying trim, but they were the definition of Grenade motor, in race trim they were rated at around 900hp depending on they track/conditions

The BMW 4 Cyl Turbo used a KKK Turbo and made around 1350hp in Grenade trim, no way on earth will you find one of those though lol

[BOBBYr34]

Yeah well its only 750cc per turbo and they made around 1100hp in Qualifying trim, but they were the definition of Grenade motor, in race trim they were rated at around 900hp depending on they track/conditions

The BMW 4 Cyl Turbo used a KKK Turbo and made around 1350hp in Grenade trim, no way on earth will you find one of those though lol

KKK turbo's you can still get, they used them on all the Porsche930 as a factory item KKK26, i think it went up to KKK29

[zebra]

Yeah I have a 930 spec K27 in bits in my garage

But the F1 spec turbo was a special build only for BMW

oh here is the BWM engine for comparison

AND if you want tiny turbine housings

Sorry for whoring your thread btw

[BOBBYr34]

Yeah I have a 930 spec K27 in bits in my garage

But the F1 spec turbo was a special build only for BMW

oh here is the BWM engine for comparison

AND if you want tiny turbine housings

Sorry for whoring your thread btw

Thanks for the pics

[dahandfull]

Bobby,

So looking at it from a VM point of view (even if money is no object, its still relative), in your opinion the amount of money/time spent on the manifold setup is worth the benefit over a reputable aftermarket item??

ie; if manifold X is purchased for $1000 and yields you a 100rpm advantage, does you creation of $10000 yield you <than a 1000rpm advantage? (you manifold is better than 1rpm/$10)

make sence?

Hopefully some more questions for you soon if you don't mind. Great build and thanks for the info.

[BOBBYr34]

Bobby,

So looking at it from a VM point of view (even if money is no object, its still relative), in your opinion the amount of money/time spent on the manifold setup is worth the benefit over a reputable aftermarket item??

ie; if manifold X is purchased for $1000 and yields you a 100rpm advantage, does you creation of $10000 yield you <than a 1000rpm advantage? (you manifold is better than 1rpm/$10)

make sence?

Hopefully some more questions for you soon if you don't mind. Great build and thanks for the info.

Before i answering your question i need you to state what reputable manifold are you comparing it to? as i have not come across one that would perform in a manner that john whats it too.

You can compare it that way if you like about the money spent i think you dont know much about the R&D involved when making a one off design! The cost of material was not cheap as the whole manifold is constructed in 321 stainless.

More than happy to answer any questions regardig the build.

Thank you

Bobby

[zebra]

Thought anymore about changing turbos to an EFR/GTX/RX etc?

Also cant see it anywhere, what thickness is the tubing for the manifold?

[BOBBYr34]

Thought anymore about changing turbos to an EFR/GTX/RX etc?

Turbo's to me seem like they are limited at 17PSI unless i am entering the wrong data, I will be showing John tomorrow will have some feedback about it.

Have you used these turbo's if so let me know in what application

[zebra]

I personally havent

Good thread on both the EFR and GTX turbos in the forced induction section

As for 17psi...well from the results I have seen, the more boost the better with either Turbo

[dahandfull]

Bobby,

Well a reputable japanese company - HKS could be considered as one..

"i think you dont know much about the R&D involved when making a one off design!" bit unfair you saying that without having any knowledge of my background.

"as john wants it to" - does that mean his engineering "tolerance or allowance" is much finer than what other companies designed?

im sorry, i don't mean to sound/come across rude, i just want to understand and have you explain to me the lengths you are going to with reguards to the R&D. Does this engineered design manifold make enough of a difference to actually have a marked effect. I mean, if such a thing was put on, i dunno, Mark Jacobson's drag car, would he cut 5tenths off the time?

[BOBBYr34]

Bobby,

Well a reputable japanese company - HKS could be considered as one..

"i think you dont know much about the R&D involved when making a one off design!" bit unfair you saying that without having any knowledge of my background.

"as john wants it to" - does that mean his engineering "tolerance or allowance" is much finer than what other companies designed?

im sorry, i don't mean to sound/come across rude, i just want to understand and have you explain to me the lengths you are going to with reguards to the R&D. Does this engineered design manifold make enough of a difference to actually have a marked effect. I mean, if such a thing was put on, i dunno, Mark Jacobson's drag car, would he cut 5tenths off the time?

Mike,

John had a look at the HKS manifold found many mistakes incorrect pipe size incorrect pipe diameter incorrect wasgate design incorrect merg to his acceptance.

Stated by John " a car that has TURBO LAG is a BAD design" also you have to understand, the Manifold and the motor build will work hand in hand.

John's Tolerance and allowance are 100000000000000% finer then any company out there. Have a read about John Skola and his builds search under "Skola developments".

If you like Mike i can give you a call and tell you in full detail as much as i know about the build. PM me your number or call me 0414959914 and ill give you the answer about Mark Jacobson's drag car.

[drag-on silvia]

i think i get where dahandfull is coming from in regard to $ vs results

if manifold a is $1000 and manifold b is $10000, is manifold b 10 times better than manifold a? if its not, how do you justify the difference.

i appriciate the engineering and unique angle you are going with this build but at the end of the day what is your desired goal and what if it has or could be achieved using the same general parts available to the public off the shelf?

what do you have to achieve to make this build successful?

cheers adam