R34 Gtr Build

[ISL33P]

There you have it.....as for the hard work done for me LOL I wish......

[Raysboostin]

Thanks Ray,

I will continue beingopen about my build as its not just for meits for everyone.

The reason we went 2.8L so it could rev and a 3L dont like to rev and the block is not designed to have a diff sitting under it. If John had the choice on L he would want it to be a 6L.

321 Stainless has titanium in it, to help handle high temps better than other stainless grades.

I was more refering to an OS 3L than an rb30 as it seems u have the budget for it.

When you say "handle high temps" do you mean it doesnt warp as much??

[BOBBYr34]

I was more refering to an OS 3L than an rb30 as it seems u have the budget for it.

When you say "handle high temps" do you mean it doesnt warp as much??

I will ask john again as it's been 4 years when he answered that question about a 3 L .

It doesn't warp or crack 321 stainless is used for aircraft exhausts however it's a very difficult material to work with when machining .

[BOBBYr34]

There you have it.....as for the hard work done for me LOL I wish......

If you need to know more about other modifications we have done or doing just MSG me on here and I'll make sure I get some answers

[Roy]

When you say "handle high temps" do you mean it doesnt warp as much??

It doesn't warp or crack 321 stainless is used for aircraft exhausts however it's a very difficult material to work with when machining .

321H is better again due to the extra carbon and the toughness it gets. The whole warping thing is a bit off base. You need to consider thermal expansion and Stainless has a higher rate of thermanl expansion then some other materials, including mild steel. So the whole warping things is mostly a problem with the compromises you have to make due to space. If your manifold is designed to allow the manifold to grow with expansion then contract as it cools then they dont warp. If when they grow they pull due to no movement in the exhaust and inlet then when they cool they will cool to a different position and you people claim they have warped. Or as they heat the weight of the turbo and gate make the manifold want to sink in the engine bay then again tehy will cool in a different position. So support the weight of the turbo and a stainless manifold will be happy. So its normal for a manifold to expand when hot, the whole warping thing is to an extent inevitable due to something going from 20deg C to 900deg C but take some precautionary steps and they will be fine.

Here is what the rally and f1 teams of the 80's used to do

If you look in the world of motorsport you do get some ideas for inlets on the V10s and V12s where more then 4 cylinders needed to be fed in a bank of cylinders. The big curve ball is they often run restrictors so manifolds are designed around maximising torque and before airflow limitation and driving like a big diesel truck My Cossie has plenty of aftermarket manifold options that have been forged from their days in the WRC

[Raysboostin]

321H is better again due to the extra carbon and the toughness it gets. The whole warping thing is a bit off base. You need to consider thermal expansion and Stainless has a higher rate of thermanl expansion then some other materials, including mild steel. So the whole warping things is mostly a problem with the compromises you have to make due to space. If your manifold is designed to allow the manifold to grow with expansion then contract as it cools then they dont warp. If when they grow they pull due to no movement in the exhaust and inlet then when they cool they will cool to a different position and you people claim they have warped. Or as they heat the weight of the turbo and gate make the manifold want to sink in the engine bay then again tehy will cool in a different position. So support the weight of the turbo and a stainless manifold will be happy. So its normal for a manifold to expand when hot, the whole warping thing is to an extent inevitable due to something going from 20deg C to 900deg C but take some precautionary steps and they will be fine.

I understand its not technically warping, its just the common term for manifolds changing shape. Every manifold regardless of construction design or material will change shape over time, as uve mentioned stainless changes shape more than other materials.

[wolverine]

I only just stumbled across this thread, thanks Bobby.

Hopefully some of these ideas can be taken mainstream over the next few years.

[BOBBYr34]

I only just stumbled across this thread, thanks Bobby.

Hopefully some of these ideas can be taken mainstream over the next few years.

I hope people start to follow it now with the simple set up of the motor for a start.

IE Squish, Correct cam selection and correct static comp i think if you get these three right you will be heading in the right direction.

If you need more info just let me know.

[NoFigJamHere]

Bobby let me first congratulate you on what you are doing, truth be said we'd all probably do the same thing if we could! Initially i was surprised Mr Skola was so willing to share in such detail what he is doing for you but it quickly dawned on me that he'd probably just laugh at the thought of anyone trying to copy that manifold design. Can you please do me a favour next time you speak to John? Can you ask him if remembers a time long long time ago (i'd say 1987) when he came down to a partiular Victorian based ATCC race team and made/modified an Intake manifold for a 5.0lt Holden engine? To jog his memory ask him if he was locked in a room within this shop (to perform his magic) and what happened when during the night he needed to have crap? He'll remember i'd rekon ... Tell im i was the 17 year old apprentice engine builder under Arch. M who had to "take care" of the aftermath!! With results im not willing to share on here but if John actually remembers you'll probably need a ventilator to catchh your breathe you'll be laughing so hard.... .... I'll have to admit i would never have read all this story if not for reading John was involved.. Even thou im by no means a friend or had any other contact with him, i like many others within that industry knew and learnt who he was and what he could do. I have been basically building and tuning shit since then and I am willing to share any knowledge or actual expierence regarding the RB26 with you and John that might be useful to your mission. Not saying i know everything about them but ive done quite a few engines and regarding what your doing with the squish i have some first hand knowledge John may (or may not) find useful. I built a test RB26 for my own R32 GTR (as i dont and would never use a customers job to do this like 95% of the "performance shops" unless i was asked to) to test certain boundaries. I ran 12.2:1 comp with 87.5mm pistons running shell or mobil 98 octane pump fuel with 20% toluene. And had awesome results. I ran the engine for 5000kms and pulled it down to look see ;-) btw it had GT2876R twins on custom manifolds etc running max 20 psi.Made 510hp at all 4 on 17psi. It also ran an M800. If John is interested or needs any info i may have that he feels might help in your project let me know and il PM u my mobile no probs. Thats purely if he needs to know what some of the pitfalls RB's can throw at you. I may have missed it but what block are you using? i'll be amazed if you get an N1 block to cop 34psi and 10:1 for very long, but saying that John may have a solution that he could let out the bag ... Theres also quite a few miss informed quotes by a few that as much as id like to reply to its a thread about one guys vision and being prepared to not just talk about it but actually do it. Love it!

Again impressed with what your doing mate and really hope it comes together.. As for the doubters,Knocker's im sure you've heard it all before..... Jealous is my guess... Its coz u can

Cheers n im keen to see you cut some 4WD circles

[BOBBYr34]

Bobby let me first congratulate you on what you are doing, truth be said we'd all probably do the same thing if we could! Initially i was surprised Mr Skola was so willing to share in such detail what he is doing for you but it quickly dawned on me that he'd probably just laugh at the thought of anyone trying to copy that manifold design. Can you please do me a favour next time you speak to John? Can you ask him if remembers a time long long time ago (i'd say 1987) when he came down to a partiular Victorian based ATCC race team and made/modified an Intake manifold for a 5.0lt Holden engine? To jog his memory ask him if he was locked in a room within this shop (to perform his magic) and what happened when during the night he needed to have crap? He'll remember i'd rekon ... Tell im i was the 17 year old apprentice engine builder under Arch. M who had to "take care" of the aftermath!! With results im not willing to share on here but if John actually remembers you'll probably need a ventilator to catchh your breathe you'll be laughing so hard.... .... I'll have to admit i would never have read all this story if not for reading John was involved.. Even thou im by no means a friend or had any other contact with him, i like many others within that industry knew and learnt who he was and what he could do. I have been basically building and tuning shit since then and I am willing to share any knowledge or actual expierence regarding the RB26 with you and John that might be useful to your mission. Not saying i know everything about them but ive done quite a few engines and regarding what your doing with the squish i have some first hand knowledge John may (or may not) find useful. I built a test RB26 for my own R32 GTR (as i dont and would never use a customers job to do this like 95% of the "performance shops" unless i was asked to) to test certain boundaries. I ran 12.2:1 comp with 87.5mm pistons running shell or mobil 98 octane pump fuel with 20% toluene. And had awesome results. I ran the engine for 5000kms and pulled it down to look see ;-) btw it had GT2876R twins on custom manifolds etc running max 20 psi.Made 510hp at all 4 on 17psi. It also ran an M800. If John is interested or needs any info i may have that he feels might help in your project let me know and il PM u my mobile no probs. Thats purely if he needs to know what some of the pitfalls RB's can throw at you. I may have missed it but what block are you using? i'll be amazed if you get an N1 block to cop 34psi and 10:1 for very long, but saying that John may have a solution that he could let out the bag ... Theres also quite a few miss informed quotes by a few that as much as id like to reply to its a thread about one guys vision and being prepared to not just talk about it but actually do it. Love it!

Again impressed with what your doing mate and really hope it comes together.. As for the doubters,Knocker's im sure you've heard it all before..... Jealous is my guess... Its coz u can

Cheers n im keen to see you cut some 4WD circles

John does not like secrets about building a motor or anything else in this world. I did say to John that i would keep this build open for anyone to ask questions and give the right answers. This is why John has stepped into building this build , and he did state this is his last and no more after this one.

Great to hear that you know of John Skola and i will ask about his experience in Melb !!! cant wait to see what he has to say.

Would love to speak to you about your rb26 experience and what other things you have found.

Thank you for your comments.

[BOBBYr34]

Below is a nismo manifold showing the installation of the second bank of injectors.

Not many people know that the nismo manifold already has all the hard work done for you, all you need to do is drill the holes where the injectors sit and add a fuel rail its so simple.

[johnbarry88]

wow thats so cool..

[bigmikespec]

Below is a nismo manifold showing the installation of the second bank of injectors.

Not many people know that the nismo manifold already has all the hard work done for you, all you need to do is drill the holes where the injectors sit and add a fuel rail its so simple.

Thanks Bobby, looks great! Do you know what angle you were able to drill the holes?

[BOBBYr34]

The face where you have to drill has the angle you can measure, it's impossible to make a mistake

[bigmikespec]

The face where you have to drill has the angle you can measure, it's impossible to make a mistake

Only asked because a shallower angle (less than 45°) would be ideal... as shallow as you can get it really so it is directed more into the inlet port.

[BOBBYr34]

Only asked because a shallower angle (less than 45°) would be ideal... as shallow as you can get it really so it is directed more into the inlet port.

I would agree with you, however since the inlet port is far away its not as critical

[Raysboostin]

Only asked because a shallower angle (less than 45°) would be ideal... as shallow as you can get it really so it is directed more into the inlet port.

Ive never quite understood how injector angle would make any difference performance. If the fuel was properly atomised it would get caught in the airstream regardless of angle wouldnt it??

[bigmikespec]

Ive never quite understood how injector angle would make any difference performance. If the fuel was properly atomised it would get caught in the airstream regardless of angle wouldnt it??

A big high flowing injector will not atomise the fuel very well, hence placing it further away from the intake port will increase atmosation as it travels to the inlet valve... try putting an injector at 90°to the port and see how you go!

[GTRNUR]

Ive never quite understood how injector angle would make any difference performance. If the fuel was properly atomised it would get caught in the airstream regardless of angle wouldnt it??

Thats my understanding of it as well.

Ideally you do aim the injector at the back of the intake valve, but in this case it is a second set of injectors and different rules apply. The normal concept of injector angle is more for the primary set of injectors and relates to stopping or reducing fuel pooling in the intake manifold.

Being it is a second rail the additional 6 injectors are only active when the engine is under full load and the throttles are wide open, and when airflow is at its highest. Which eliminats any pooling issues immediatly.

The second rail of injectors are probably also fireing sequentially as well, considering the motec thats driving them.

I am surprised Bobby didn't just go with a set of ID2000's though. They are very stable to very low pulse widths and individually deliver enough fuel to drown someone in 60 seconds.

Using ID2000's would have meant the spare injector bosses would be available for use with my latest favourite modification... Water/Meth injection!

[SimonR32]

Thats my understanding of it as well.

Ideally you do aim the injector at the back of the intake valve, but in this case it is a second set of injectors and different rules apply. The normal concept of injector angle is more for the primary set of injectors and relates to stopping or reducing fuel pooling in the intake manifold.

Being it is a second rail the additional 6 injectors are only active when the engine is under full load and the throttles are wide open, and when airflow is at its highest. Which eliminats any pooling issues immediatly.

The second rail of injectors are probably also fireing sequentially as well, considering the motec thats driving them.

I am surprised Bobby didn't just go with a set of ID2000's though. They are very stable to very low pulse widths and individually deliver enough fuel to drown someone in 60 seconds.

Using ID2000's would have meant the spare injector bosses would be available for use with my latest favourite modification... Water/Meth injection!

I also am surprised by the lack of ID2000's, but I guess the simple normal and effective way isn't in line with the build.