The Wakefield "incident"

[GTR32G]

Was looking over the images that Bianca has taken, thinking more about how things panned out and where the300z has ended up in the accident, in regards to the comment of the car making the corner well it did get along way around and with no brakes or very little has done dam well to get that far around the corner in the first place, must of had some amount of brakes as entering a corner with no brakes and trying to slow the car down using gears would most likely spin the car in the braking zone from a compression lock up.

I believe after looking at my images more the 300Z may have gone in a bit too hot ran very wind with under steer, once on the grass the 300z would have most likely regained control when he drove over the pit exit road and driven back onto the track, but Eric was in the wrong spot at the wrong time and was hit in the right rear by the left front of the 300Z meaning the 300Z was almost straightening out his understeer off the track?

I see the 300Z has one video camera on the roof and one on the left side skirt would be nice to see some footage to clear things up and back up Greg's stories but would not prove much at the end of the day what has happed did, and let's get on with getting both cars back on the track again.

As for the fire in the 300Z there was a fire ball that came from the left side just after impact but a lot of coolant made some steam after the car came to a stop but could not see any other flames after the car stopped.

I have emailed my images to Eric today and have his ok to put them up his main concern was people seeing the images may turn new comers of track days, I don't think this is the case and would make people think twice before doing something silly to see the carnage it will cause

[Thunder]

Greg, I find your statements totally infuriating.

To say I was at fault is a crock! It IS the responsibility of the faster car to safely overtake any other car. When I exited the track I did check mirrors and went to the far outside to ensure I was out of the way of any faster car. I have the video and can prove this fact. Even V8 Supercars are expected to slow to 60 k's in Pit lane! To say it was my responsibility to get out of the way of the other car is completely off base. It IS the responsibilty of the car that has lost control to minimise the risk to others.

It is clear to me from my video that Richard would have hit the tyre barrier if he had not hit me. The impact to my car actually lessened the damage to yours. I would expect you to understand that since you are experienced in racing.

I am not attempting to fix blame on anyone - this was an accident were it brake failure or not. I have never said anyone deliberatly hit me an my passenger. What I have said is that I would expect more assistance in getting my car back roadworthy.

We can continue to argue our points but I am choosing to outline where we agree and we will just simply have to dissagree on the rest.

I agree that on the race track, there are inherit risks and signing a waiver I agreed to the risks as outlined in that document.

I agree that this was an accident which was unfortunate for all parties involved.

Frankly I am the one who has taken the intiative to turn my situation around and getting assistance from my club community. You could have just as well done this as you have commercial contacts who could have offered more help. I am the one taking charge of my own destiny and turning my negative situation into a positive outcome.

I am honestly a bit offended by many of your comments but will choose to let it lie as I have to focus my energy and attention to getting my own affairs in order.

Eric,

I am replying to 5 pages of comments, and a lot are from other people.

Some of the comments are defamatory, and a lot are insulting to say the least.

Richard had no brakes and was out of control when he hit you, so he was not overtaking, and you are missing my point.

No one had a crystal ball to know what was about to happen, and the first you were probably aware of the accident was when your car came to rest. The period just before the incident, you were the only person in control of a car, that could have done something to avoid the accident, and I am sure if you had a crystal ball or the benefit of hindsight, you would have been going a little faster. Your video shows your car off the racing line, but doing 50 - 60km/h (at best) even while on the race track, and a long way away from pit lane. You were hit in the rear quarter and another 2 - 3 metres would have been enough to miss you. I am not blaming you, but I am pointing out that you were the only person that was in a position to have avoided this, no one else had any opportunity to stop this happening, and as little as 2 - 3 metres was all it would have taken to be out of the way.

I did not suggest that it was your responsibilty to move out of the way. If you had the choice of being in this accident, or not being in this accident, what would you choose? If Richard had the same choice, what would he choose? And as the owner of the car, what would I choose? No one wanted to be involved in the accident. From my house a couple of hundred kilometres away, could I have done anything to stop the accident happening? Richard was probably doing 150km/h with no brakes, changing back gears to slow down and take the corner, and when he is nearly round the corner, 2 wheels end up on the grass and he slides out of control. Can he do anything to stop the accident happening?

What I was saying was that your car was in control, and it was doing 50 - 60km/h on the race track, and if you knew what was happening behind you, a quick squirt on the accelerator is all that was needed to stop you from being in this situation, or alternatively if you were exiting at say 5km/h more and you wouldn't have been involved. No one else had any opportunity to avoid the accident, and if they did, I am sure they would have taken it. However, we have been crucified on this forum. Is this fair ???

Eric, how much kitty litter is there at that corner between the track and the wall?

If you were doing say 150km/h at that corner and lost the brakes, do you think ploughing into the wall head on is the safe thing to do?

Richard did not have any other choices, he took the safest option.

No one is to blame for the accident, it just happened.

This incident is nothing to do with me or my company, yet we have been dragged into this "mud slinging" match.

This thread should be about helping you, not pointing the finger at others for what was a terrible incident for all parties concerned.

The accident happened and nothing can be done to change this.

Everyone needs to move on and help Eric get his car fixed.

Regards,

Greg Stevenson

[gregor]

As for the fire in the 300Z there was a fire ball that came from the left side just after impact but a lot of coolant made some steam after the car came to a stop but could not see any other flames after the car stopped.

the fire only stopped after duncan and myself put it out before the fire truck arrived.

Edited March 9, 2011 by gregor

[Pezhead]

I'm uploading the video now so everyone can make up their own mind. The driver couldn't have missed seeing me as he nearly followed me into the pits and saw all the way down the back straight.

Greg please leave my forum as you are not contributing anything positive to me getting my car fixed.

Everyone here is intitled to their own opinion just as you are. The mods ensure that they clean anything out of these forums that does not meet our terms of use including negative comments about commercial companies.

By the way, my ChipIn account was posted here, you could have at least pitched in a little. But you know what do not do so now, I don't want your money.

[fatz]

has someone started the fix the car fund

will fling some cash as its going to be exy >8k will also pm some details of a guy who can fix it and wont just tell you its a write off

[benm]

http://fixwifiesmx5.chipin.com/

Requires Paypal.

[Pezhead]

All, I really didn't want to post this video out of the context of my story "mini movie" that I will make. But given the interest and your right to make up your own mind I am posting it here.

You can make up your own mind as to what occured. What I do ask is to keep in mind that this was an EXTREMELY unfortunate accident and in fact, the first like it in the club's history. I intend to make this club even stronger, and our events are as safe as can be. Mechanical failures are unpredictable and decisions have to be made in split seconds. I am not angry that the other driver did his best to control his car. I am also VERY thankful that the impact occured at the rear end of my car rather than centre punching a door.

I am disappointed that the parties involved aside from the initial check never came back to see me at the race track (I was there until all sessions closed). Didn't see if I had a way to get home. And haven't made the most trivial effort to help me out. In fact all I get is a bunch of grief about how I could have moved out of the way. Who looks in their rear view mirror when on pit exit to see if someone is leaving the race track to hit them?

You be the judge:

[gts4diehard]

I was out there watching on the day but left before the incident, I met a few people and put faces to names and saw some really nice cars.

I know hindsight is always 20/20 but from my experience going to a few track days as a spectator and participant at QLD raceway and lakeside raceway (john fraser driver training sessions) I have to say I was surprised to see the 'racecars' mixing it with the road cars and the numbers of cars on the track sometimes. I can't remember anyone running racecars in the same sessions with roadcars with such performance differentials at those track days, fast cars were always run with cars of similar lapspeed.

The rules at those tracks was the same as it was on Saturday, 'you pay for your car' and you were damn careful not to hit anyone elses or get that close just in case. One thing to remember is that it is afterall a track day, not a race, few people run sponsored cars and can risk going 10/10ths all the time and potentially crashing, especially when they are paying for the car! One of the rules they used to run on those trackdays to lessen the chance of cars coming together was 'no passing on corners' which of course isn't as much fun, but after all they were track days and people like to drive their cars home. They also used to only run about 6 cars at a time so if anyone was a schumacher there was enough of a gap that that it would take a while for them to catch up(bearing in mind the drivers were similarly matched). And after each of the sessions if any of the drivers were much faster they would be moved to faster groups; idiots were kicked off the track. I do remember a few incidents at these trackdays but they were all car vs wall/armco rather than hitting anyone else.

From all accounts the ZX was going pretty hard but I find it pretty hard to believe that the brakes failed (but were fine afterwards) WITHOUT giving any warning beforehand. If guys want to drive 'racecars' 10/10ths as though they are in a race then maybe they should be running with other racecars and drivers who know to speed up in pit lanes ... I don't think that one would go down well with anyone! certainly not the big boys... and if race car drivers do know to speed up in pit lane then that just further supports the mX drivers reaction, he wasn't a race car driver and it wasn't a race - don't expect non-racers to know how racers think when it's a track day!

Edited March 9, 2011 by gts4diehard

[gregor]

gts4 - the reason they were on the track at the same time was because it was an untimed driver training session with passengers allowed. There were speed groups for the timed sessions. No-one was getting laptimes except the ones with in car devices. Most drivers handled themselves appropriately and werent going 10/10ths.

Passing on the corners wasn't allowed and numbers on the track at once were within normal conditions for any wakefield day I've heard of.

[Pezhead]

That is true. I've been to speed off the streets sessions where there were nearly 20 cars on the track at a time - crazy.

It was an untimed passenger session and it was the ONLY time passengers were allowed in the car. I understand that the other car was giving a passenger a ride which is why it was out in the session. It looks like the car is out of control because it is. I have examined this closely and there must have been some kind of failure for the driver to get that far out of shape at that speed - consistent with some braking issue.

[Messiah]

so, the untimed session thing kinda puts the "trying to record a good time at a timed event" excuse to rest, on.. the trying to look after his passenger thing kinda did it too. if he's trying to set cracking times, why did he have a passenger (z that is).

[Trozzle]

Hello Greg, I would like to give my opinion on this matter now after having seen that video.

Richard, the driver of your car at the time, had a better chance of avoiding Eric's car than Eric did of avoiding this accident. Given that Richard has far far FAR more chance of seeing Eric's MX5 before the impact than Eric did of seeing that thing coming towards him, perhaps Richard could have bitten the bullet and straightened his steering to run behind the MX5 before he left the tarmac. There is no way at that speed he had any hope in his mind that he might make the corner. From the moment he entered it without brakes, he knew he carried too much momentum to turn.

Richard was the ONLY person who could have avoided that accident.

[Thunder]

Duncan & Gregor, thanks for putting the fire in my car out !!!

I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened and who was thanked and who wasn't.

I also wasn't there to apologise to Eric, and the first I heard about the accident was around 5.00pm when they were on their way back.

The power steering cooler is damaged, the engine oil relocation kit and cooler is damaged and the thermo fans were hard up against the hot turbo and manifold, so the fire was a combination of plastic thermo fans, power steering fluid and engine oil. Obviously the big hole in the radiator did little to put the fire out.

I mentioned the brakes appear to be working back at the factory.

This is bearing in mind that the car does not run and we are talking about pushing speed, not driving speed.

It had brand new Motul RBF660 racing brake fluid, Endless 6 pot calipers, Endless Rotors and near new Endless pads.

Brake dust is an uncommon occurance for a Drift Car. The brakes and cooling will be upgraded before it goes to the track again.

Eric, Richard would have known you were ahead of him, but he wouldn't have known whether you were going around for another lap, or whether you were exiting.

Taking the corner was still the safest option for him and his passenger as it gave him more time to wash off speed.

Regards,

Greg

[Pezhead]

Trozzle,

In my opinion once he attempted to make the corner he was committed. If he straightended out he would have impacted the tyre wall at speed. Given that fact, I do not think he could have made it back on to the track either even if my car weren't on the exit lane. Of course this IS my opinion - I leave that to you to form an opinion of your own given my video and Brian/Bianca's photos.

Please remember folks great for you to have an opinion, but they are only that. The facts on this accident have already occurred. I'm not one for a great deal of pondering spilt milk. However, since Greg and I have such differing opinions on the matter I just wanted to give you the facts that I had documented through photos and video for you to have your own opinion.

At the end of the day, it is done. The owner and Driver of the car are not legally bound per the terms of the WP waiver to provide me with any sort of compensation. Fine. They must choose their own moral code as to what is the "right" thing to do in this situation. They have chosen.

I have to move on - I have no choice.

[a20089]

Eric,

I am replying to 5 pages of comments, and a lot are from other people.

Everyone needs to move on and help Eric get his car fixed.

It was a incident, there are no moral legal grounds for compensation and Eric probably should have not mentioned his thoughts about seeking legal recource in an open forum. However your initial post was insulting to Eric and to most people. It got me miffed and I know you were not involved at all. You can clearly state you were not involved and leave it at that (which an Exec member had already done). Other "facts" like the car was going to make the corner were not needed.

Your offer to fix the exhust system if needed should be seen as a chip in like any other member. I'd like to see the driver offer to chip in similarly out of the goodness of his heart, but only the goodness of his heart.

I agree we need to move on and help Eric get his car fixed.

PS, an experianced V8 race driver with thousands of laps experiance on the race track in a full preped race car on slicks can only get 1.10.1??? I only do 1 or 2 track days a year in a stock car with a bit of extra boost, on road tyres and am only 0.5 sec slower? Either I'm doing the wrong job or something doesn't add up to me.

[Trozzle]

At 4 seconds into that video, he is pointed directly at Eric, with no hope in the goddamned world of not becoming a lawn mower.

[smart_one]

What I was saying was that your car was in control, and it was doing 50 - 60km/h on the race track, and if you knew what was happening behind you, a quick squirt on the accelerator is all that was needed to stop you from being in this situation, or alternatively if you were exiting at say 5km/h more and you wouldn't have been involved. No one else had any opportunity to avoid the accident, and if they did, I am sure they would have taken it. However, we have been crucified on this forum. Is this fair ???

I just thought this was a bit of a stupid paragraph, I think it is stupid to suggest Eric could have avoided it, even if he knew the car was going straight for him i doubt he would have been in the right gear to give enough power to avoid the incident.

Looks like wrong place wrong time but you say it isn't fair that you guys are being so called "crucified" and that it isn't "fair". Really it sounds like after the incident you guys didn't give a crap about the other car which at the end of the day YOU guys ran in to. It isn't Erics responsibility to check YOUR brakes before and during racing, It isn't Erics responsibility to have to stop your car with his car because YOU are out of control, there is no reason for a high performance car that seems to have a lot of $ spent on brakes to just fail without any reason for it. WHat I'm getting at is it isn't Erics fault at all and it seems more like people are shitty how you guys handeled the situation and not so much that the incident occured. The way the post-incident occured basically tells the rest of the world what type of people your company may be. I know If I had ran into another car and it had to be towed because of my fault, at the very least I would check up on the other guys, see what can be done. It isn't expected for you guys to pay for the accident, but if funds are available you could do something small like help in some way as after all it was the 180 that ran into the MX5, not the other way around.As a Drift Mob (company I assume) wouldn't it have been better to put something towards the repair (doesn't need to be substantial) as a public relations stunt? Was there a sorry that was said?

Sure it is an accident, but cop it like men, don't play the "is this fair" card because nothing fair came out of the situation for anyone involved, it is a bit of a selfish thing to say once someone pulls out the "is this fair" card.

My 2 cents, I don't think I said anything too bad, just stated it as it appears.

[SpeedWhore]

As stated before. I think everyone just needs to take a step back relax and help eric out any way they can. IF theres a fund raiser BBQ please pm me exec and ill help where i can.

Cheers

Sid

[Melly]

*Begin Rant*

I hate what has happened - But most of all I hate that it has turned into a blame game!

I (like most of you) want to help Eric get his wifes car running again! I was in a situation where my car was vandalised and a lot of damage was done and if it wasn't for friends and family helping me out I wouldn't have gotten it back on the road so I know what it is like!

It has happened, it is unfortunate, I understand peoples anger/frustration but I think people should stop playing the blame game and start looking at what we can do to help Eric out! He is a top bloke, any event I've been at and had questions he has been able to answer them or find someone who can.

I do personally believe he was far enough off the track for the speed he was doing but that is MY OWN personal opinion and yes others may think otherwise.

Yes it could have possibly been avoided in ways in regards to both parties but it wasn't and NO amount of pointing the finger can change that.

Eric has been great about this saying it is an accident because yes, that is what it was! Greg yes, I do find that it was extremely rude to say if Eric did this it could have been avoided etc... It is easier said than done because if you were in his situation you may have done exactly the same thing as him and you cannot say that you wouldn't because in moments like those you don't know how you are going to react, it is not in our nature to predict how we will react in particular situations.

Yes it does suck that there was damage to both cars, but at least nobody was badly hurt or worse killed - It is a brave thing for Eric to publicly approach our members for help in a tough time and so I take my hat off to him and give him my full support.

Nobody deserved this, Thanks to those great people that helped him in his initial rut with getting home etc... And now I want to thank people in advance who are chipping in to help him and his wife get her fixed.

Let's stop the childish finger pointing and focus on what is important, Reece, Eric and the driver of the other car are safe! There is damage done and now we need to work together to do what we can to fix it. I believe there is a difference between voicing an opinion and pointing the finger, some people may not have intentionally being sounded like they are blaming someone but some posts have certainly come across that way.

I know some may disagree with what I have said but all in all - That is life.

*End of Rant*

[Pezhead]

FOND MEMORIES

The discussion in here needs to take a new direction so here is the next installment of the blog. I've been excited about motor racing ever since I was a little boy watching the Mach 5 with my brothers. We'd make lego cars and pretend to race them all over the house.

My first track experience was when a friend invited me to an Alfa Romeo club track day in Seattle. I only had a modest Celica and took it out to run. It leaned so bad that the shoulders of the tyres worn down so I couldn't run anymore but I was hooked. I though, wow I couldn't get over how different it is to drive on a race track. Being able to really push the car and my driving skills to a limit. That car would eventually got a Japanese import motor with side draft carbies, A008 porsche spec tyres and centerline rims and a number of other goodies. Wasn't ever as fast as a car you can get now but was lots of fun and started my interest in motorsport.

In a lot of ways the MX5 reminded me of that experience. My GTR is way faster. It's a beast coming on boost and fighting the weight as you enter turn 1 at 180 and try to slow it back down. The MX5 was full throttle through 1 and could late brake up to turn 1 using the trail braking to turn in and then right back on the power as hard as possible with the 1.8 litre working hard. I was surpised how fun it is to drive given that it only makes 1/3 what the GTR does. It did lean a lot being a totally stock car, but being so light the RE001 rubber didn't have to work as hard and so held pretty good considering how hard I was pushing the car. Did I push the car too hard sometimes - well, yes but being small light and a bit underpowered it didn't matter the back would casually come out and so controllably do as you command. Of course that is a slow way around the track - but it sure was fun.

I randomly picked a few laps and uploaded to youtube - excuse the poor driving lines. But I needed to get this thread back on track. This is the excitement and thrill of a track day. A day when you are one with your mechanical friend.

There is simply nothing like the sensation of taking a car out on the track for a few laps.

(Oh and nice burn out Duncan!)