The Wakefield "incident"

[carlo]

Eric - Sucks what happened, and I am glad that the club members pulled together to get your car home. This is a great club that I have been far to absent from in recent years. I hope you get the car sorted as painlessly as possible.

This is a really tricky one, and could set a very interesting precedent should one party be held liable (impossible under the waivers). If all of a sudden we are now liable for damage done to others on a race track how many people would go to track days? Ferrari owners would have the track to themselves! The insurance costs would make the whole thing impossible.

The whole scenario sucks, especially since both cars where owned by people who where not at the event. Both owners got a call to say their treasured cars have been damaged.

The thought going through my head at every track day is if I bend this thing, hit a wall or if someone hits me it is my fault. If someone hits me or I run out of talent and get killed its my fault. I am the one who signed the waiver, I am the one who put my self and my car out there. (I am now totally precious about my old R33, and that's why I am building a dedicated race car). At the end of the day a brake failure at any speeds is scary (happened to me years ago at EC) and I think its great he didn't hit you about a meter up the car.

Perhaps the only thing that could have helped is by splitting "street cars" into a separate class. Way back in the moto-concepts days at Eastern Creek they would split us up and running with people in similar speeds cars was always a little comforting (although in hindsight us C classer s where noobs) (EDIT: Just saw it was a passenger lap.. Changes things a little and I can understand why many events sadly don't allow them).

As a mate of mine said after putting his car into the wall at Eastern Creek "it's motorsport..."

Edited March 9, 2011 by carlo

[Pezhead]

As some others have said I shouldn't have mentioned legal so soon. To be honest I was a bit emotional and hadn't gotten the copy of the waiver from Wakefield to have a detailed review. Legally I do understand that I signed away the rights outlined in that Waiver, but I has also promised my wife (who really doesn't understand motorsport) as she wanted me to see if I could pursue that as an avenue.

With that behind now, it is forward to working with all of you and your good will to get this car back to road worthy.

As has been said many times already in this thread, attitude and your own moral compass guide you as to what are the right things to do in any given situation. The Legal boundaries are clear (now).

[carlo]

As some others have said I shouldn't have mentioned legal so soon.

Yep.. I know where you are coming from. After this kind of thing happens most people go into shock a little. Richard may well have been thinking about how much trouble he is in for crashing the car of some guy he has never met before, which may explain why he was short with you. (benefit of the doubt you know)

A mate of mine speaks highly of the MX-5 club and its members too, I think it was already suggested but they may be of assistance in getting parts and contacts you need for the repair.

[tk80]

Show us the footage from the 300zx.

[Pezhead]

I don't have it. It was rotorg33 company that has it. Ironically I convinced them NOT to put it in their commercial DVD.

I didn't want to post it out of the context of the whole story.

[D_I_F]

What I'm more concerned about is WHY these to vehicles were in the same class REGARDLESS of if it was an open lap or not, vehicles still should be in similar classes to their own to avoid things like this happening.

Eric I'm very sorry to hear what has happened and if you need any help I'm always free to lend a hand, as I am to hear that now Greg has to rebuild his car as well but if the laps would have been classed correctly this may not have happened.

Hey Eric..

all cars that are "written off" in nsw now are stat writeoffs... so you could pick up a whole mx5 for quiet cheap.. there are always some on pickles..

Will also pm you something else which might help with funds..

Actually this isn't true, the rule hasn't come in yet just so the written off vehicles or WOVR'S are able to be re-registered you will just need to go over the pitts..

[hamiltonau]

guess u can grab the footage off them for your mini movie? now if only you could find a way to work 'epic thread' into your mini movie it would be mini epic movie..

[dnissi]

Eric, how much kitty litter is there at that corner between the track and the wall?

If you were doing say 150km/h at that corner and lost the brakes, do you think ploughing into the wall head on is the safe thing to do?

Richard did not have any other choices, he took the safest option.

No one is to blame for the accident, it just happened.

this is utter BS

I have lost all braking abilities at the end of the back straight before due to a failed ABS system.

You do only have a split second to decide that you are carrying WAY TOO MUCH SPEED to even contemplate making the corner, and that the only option you have is to try and park it in the kitty litter. My concern at the time was entering the kitty litter straight on so as not to roll.

After seeing Eric's footage of 'the incident', it is clear to see that the 300zx was going WAY TO FAST to even come close to making the corner and should have clearly been ditched into the kitty litter. After all, that is what it is there for! to safely stop cars that for one reason or another leave the track at speed.

The brake failure would have happened at the braking zone on the back straight, not half-way around the corner

[NickR33]

that video is pretty cut and dried... if he really is as experienced a driver as he reckons he would've run straight on BEHIND the MX5

if there was no car there you MAY have tried to make the corner (although running straight on is still the better option)

he made a mistake... doesn't make him liable but to insinuate it might be the MX5's fault is ridiculous and insulting

[Munroman]

Eric - Sucks what happened, and I am glad that the club members pulled together to get your car home. This is a great club that I have been far to absent from in recent years. I hope you get the car sorted as painlessly as possible.

This is a really tricky one, and could set a very interesting precedent should one party be held liable (impossible under the waivers). If all of a sudden we are now liable for damage done to others on a race track how many people would go to track days? Ferrari owners would have the track to themselves! The insurance costs would make the whole thing impossible.

The whole scenario sucks, especially since both cars whre owned by people who were not at the event. Both owners got a call to say their treasured cars have been damaged.

The thought going through my head at every track day is if I bend this thing, hit a wall or if someone hits me it is my fault. If someone hits me or I run out of talent and get killed its my fault. I am the one who signed the waiver, I am the one who put my self and my car out there. (I am now totally precious about my old R33, and that's why I am building a dedicated race car). At the end of the day a brake failure at any speeds is scary (happened to me years ago at EC) and I think its great he didn't hit you about a meter up the car.

Perhaps the only thing that could have helped is by splitting "street cars" into a separate class. Way back in the moto-concepts days at Eastern Creek they would split us up and running with people in similar speeds cars was always a little comforting (although in hindsight us C classer s where noobs)

As a mate of mine said after putting his car into the wall at Eastern Creek "it's motorsport..."

Excellent post!!!!!!

Especially the bit where you said both owners got the dreaded phone call. Had not thought of that.

FWIW I had a brake failure at EC in the early 90's. Scary. It was also in a 300ZX (auto - my wife's!) Z32. After that i bought a manual Z32. LOL. And sold my 911 but that's another story

[gtr jason]

May just have to watch you don’t dig a hole for the SAU or the owners of Wakefield Park, from information I heard from someone who looked at the 300Z after the accident found the whole pedal box had broken away from the floor due to poor mounting and under sized bolts used. So maybe the brakes didn’t fail the pedal box was bent up and could not get to the brake pedal very well but maybe the driver did all he could. Unfortunately as any accident on the race track people pay for their own cars. Doesn’t matter who’s at fault. I know it’s harsh but that how’s it’s always been.

As to seeing a solicitor could get very messy, if the 300Z was not CAMS log booked who done the scruitineering to check the car was safe to run on the track and signed off the brakes are all ok? SAU? This is why the CAMS Supersprint Championship does not let cars run that are not CAMS Log Booked.

To let none road registered car with no CAMS log book onto a race track is a big liability to everyone and could stuff up other track days. Even if the car is Log Booked who checked the brakes in the morning scruitineering could be dragged into this matter if it’s goes to court and gets serious.

I will speak to Steven who owns Prestige Motorsport (DRGTR) tomorrow and see what we can work out for you and will send you an email with some images of the accident Bianca took. Our family has been doing sprints for many years and been through what you are going through where someone runs into you for no mistake of your own and you end up with an empty pocket for a long time. Just have also remember the driver of the 300Z will be out of pocket well over 10K to repair his car and I’m sure he’s not happy over that, but SAU members will dig deep and help you out to see you at the race track again having fun!

good call buddy no one has gone out there to have a crash by the way the pedal box in the car is still mounted no broken bolts so people should not make up stories and only talk about what they know

[Pezhead]

SEEING THE DOCTOR

After the accident I gave my Physio a call. I was concerned because it was two days after the crash and I was still really sore. He said that day two is sometimes the worst for muscle pain. Give it two more days and if it doesn't get better then come in and see me.

I went to the Physio this morning to have my shoulder checked out. I get a sharp pain when I cough and sometimes if I bend a certain way. He had me bend and stretch certain ways and measured the tension of various muscles. The muscle in my neck on the right side is really taught. That is pulling on a joint which causes a spasm in my shoulder blade under certain circumstances. He's said that because I have full movement and don't appear to have any specific tender spots it looks to be just muscular.

He's given me a few stretching exercises to do and in two weeks the muscle should be back to a normal tension level.

It's a relief. I wouldn't want to have any nerve damage.

Oh, I also asked cause a couple of people recommended I get a massage after the accident. He said that is the worst thing you can do. The muscles are already pulled, stretched and tensioned from the trauma. The last thing you want to do is pull further which can cause some real damage. Luckily I was just too tired on Sunday after the accident cause I was thinking of going to the mall for a massage.

Please keep that good advice in mind folks.

So, now that I have my body maintenance plan underway that's one more item on the road to recovery.

[Munroman]

THE INCIDENT

.... Reece asked me if I was alright and to be honest at that moment due to the adrenalin, I wasn't sure. He was already saying he was sore and in about 60 seconds I started to feel the ache in my right shoulder.....

About then the other driver did pop his head outside my window and ask if we were alright. We said we were shaken but didn't appear to be any serious injury. Both Reece and I stayed in the car until the saftey worker in a vest appeared and said we could get out.

THIS STORY ISN'T OVER....

...WE'LL BE MAKING THE ENDING TOGETHER

Eric,

Thats an excellent update on YOUR health but I am concerned there is nothing about Reece in this thread.

If I was the volunteer driving instructor assisting YOU I would not be impressed

Regarding the "other driver" Richard (WHO I HAVE NEVER MET OR SPOKEN TO) it seems to me from your post above that he was more interested in your welfare than his car which was on fire and this is contrary to what people have been saying about his attitude after the incident.

You seem to me to be painting a very good "VICTIM" story with desired outcomes to get people sympatetic to your cause but sometimes some people see through this approach and it can backfire

Steve

PS Fish Oil and Glucosamine with Condroitin works a treat on neck/back problems.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Munroman

[Thunder]

All this talk of "moral Compass" fails to understand the obvious.

When Eric did not get the answer he wanted from Richard, he tried to shift the blame onto me and my business and tried to get me to pay for the damage.

I received phone calls and emails and I was threatened with legal action as well as with the SAU forum.

There is a right way and a wrong way to ask for assistance.

If Eric had accepted that my business and I had nothing to do with the actual incident, and he asked for assistance, we would have endeavoured to help.

We would have probably suggested a combined charity dyno day and bbq, as we know this type of event is popular.

If I had read this thread and it was all about helping Eric, I would have also suggested the charity dyno day.

However, when I read the thread, there were posts from all sorts of people, some of who were not at the track, and there were threats about boycotting my business, wrong information such as "collapsed pedal box due to undersized bolts", etc and I was forced to defend myself instead.

Rather than attacking me, my business, the car and Richard, maybe in the future, when such things happen (AS THEY WILL ON A RACE TRACK) people may consider a different approach.

Eric was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it was a freak accident.

Regards,

Greg

[DaveO74]

SEEING THE DOCTOR

He's said that because I have full movement and don't appear to have any specific tender spots it looks to be just muscular.

He's given me a few stretching exercises to do and in two weeks the muscle should be back to a normal tension level.

It's a relief. I wouldn't want to have any nerve damage.

Oh, I also asked cause a couple of people recommended I get a massage after the accident. He said that is the worst thing you can do. The muscles are already pulled, stretched and tensioned from the trauma. The last thing you want to do is pull further which can cause some real damage. Luckily I was just too tired on Sunday after the accident cause I was thinking of going to the mall for a massage.

Please keep that good advice in mind folks.

So, now that I have my body maintenance plan underway that's one more item on the road to recovery.

That is good news Eric, seems as though no long term problems will come about. I'm happy for you mate, nerve damge sucks and is so frustrating at times having limited movement.

My wife calls me zoolander cause sometimes I just can't turn right...hahaha

At least that is one less thing you will need to worry about.

Now let's get this car fixed

[Pezhead]

For clarity I didn't threaten you I asked you to review the photos and video and provide your view as having been drawn in as an active participant (e.g. owner of the car involved). I said, I will seek legal advice once I had obtained the waiver. I didn't say I would sue you. I suggested that as a personal moral ethic, I believe there is more that could be done outside the fixed legal requirement.

That is all factual. I have been nothing but professional with you and in return have been accused of being "the only one who could have avoided the accident".

I am done with this discussion! Thunder, we have put these issues to bed. I am done discussing them with you and would request that all of our other members cease all discussions on that topic.

This thread is my PERSONAL ACCOUNT of what happened and how I am working through it (with the help of our club).

Thunder, you are neither helping support my initiative or providing any thing that helps me achieve the correct outcome which is to get my car, body and mind back to normal. Please leave!

[Pezhead]

I sent a PM to Reece to see how he's going and offer the advice I've received from my Physio. I hope to hear back from him soon.

[Prue]

Everyone has to remember that car racing is expensive.

It is a dangerous sport and very high speeds are involved.

This particular corner is notorious for accidents and every driver on a race track needs to be aware of what is happening around them.

When cars are racing and reaching speeds of over 200km/h trying to beat their previous times, there is no place on the track where it is safe to be doing 50 - 60km/h.

If Eric was watching what was going on, or if Eric was leaving the track at a reasonable speed, this would not have happened to him.

At the time of the accident, he was the ONLY person that was able to do something about the predicament and the ONLY one who could have avoided the impact.

All this talk of "moral Compass" fails to understand the obvious.

When Eric did not get the answer he wanted from Richard, he tried to shift the blame onto me and my business and tried to get me to pay for the damage.

Rather than attacking me, my business, the car and Richard, maybe in the future, when such things happen (AS THEY WILL ON A RACE TRACK) people may consider a different approach.

Eric was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it was a freak accident.

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread but could you please stop contradicting yourself. First you say it's Eric's fault, then it was just a freak accident.

Also, about the shifting the blame part, aren't you doing that as well? "It's not Richard's fault, it's Erics because he was going too slow".

Maybe you should be the one considering a different approach.

[Pezhead]

Prue, I really appreciate the support but all this discussion needs to stop.

Thunder, if you want to have a personal rant at me - go start another thread and you and I can have as many words as you like there. This thread is about me getting my problem sorted and the club support I'm getting to help me get there.

If you have nothing constructive to offer than leave.

[mr 32]

sorry to hear eric

let me know if i can help you out in any way

All this talk of "moral Compass" fails to understand the obvious.

When Eric did not get the answer he wanted from Richard, he tried to shift the blame onto me and my business and tried to get me to pay for the damage.

I received phone calls and emails and I was threatened with legal action as well as with the SAU forum.

There is a right way and a wrong way to ask for assistance.

If Eric had accepted that my business and I had nothing to do with the actual incident, and he asked for assistance, we would have endeavoured to help.

We would have probably suggested a combined charity dyno day and bbq, as we know this type of event is popular.

If I had read this thread and it was all about helping Eric, I would have also suggested the charity dyno day.

However, when I read the thread, there were posts from all sorts of people, some of who were not at the track, and there were threats about boycotting my business, wrong information such as "collapsed pedal box due to undersized bolts", etc and I was forced to defend myself instead.

Rather than attacking me, my business, the car and Richard, maybe in the future, when such things happen (AS THEY WILL ON A RACE TRACK) people may consider a different approach.

Eric was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it was a freak accident.

Regards,

Greg

i have the urge to get rid of my ballstic cat for some reason

must be a full moon or something