Lambchop With A Renault Axis Here...

[scotty nm35]

it only ping'ed cos i was being a knob held it in 4th going up a steep hill at 90km/h

This probably isn't fuel, it is heat related. This is the heat the dyno is supposed to replicate. I would be backing two degrees of timing in that cell by taking it back on the dyno and loading it up at around the same revs.

Or just drop the boost.

[WAGON_BOY]

This ^^ is excellent advice!

If you replace your narrowband O2 sensor with a wideband one to do what Ryan suggested above, the CEL will continue to pop up, not because you don't have a narrowband signal going to the ECU (you will have from your wideband), but because the ECU can't see the O2 sensor' heating circuit.

The fix is either a) install your wideband sensor further down the pipe, just before the cat (like recommended by many suppliers) & leave your factory narrowband sensor still plugged in. The signal circuit will be disconnected from the ECU so won't do diddly to your tune.

Or b) replace your factory O2 with the wideband one and put a very large (10W) resistor across the heating circuit (near that green plug that you pictured) & that will fool the ECU into thinking the sensor is still there. I'll have to check what resistance it should be, but somewhere around 10 ohms is what I'm thinking.

i'll be doing the first because i luckily have plenty of bungs in my exhaust.

[scotty nm35]

I don't understand what you hope to do with the wideband, are you hoping it will tune itself using the self tune function? That isn't how it works.

Have you spoken to the tuner yet?

[bigkevracer]

It won't tune itself obviously, but my understanding is that the ECU is able to adjust fuel mixtures based on feedback from the wideband.

[scotty nm35]

With target AFR's on wot? Sounds dangerous. What happens if/when the sensor needs calibration or drifts in accuracy? That is the reason I don't use it for automated ethanol content tuning. Perhaps if you had two sensors with the signal being compared constantly?

It will stoich tune the light load with the narrowband signal input, but this wouldn't help with Wagon boy's issues as it is already on boost and well into the closed loop part of map.

[PN-Mad]

Theo, did it ping at open throttle giving it some or cruise light throttle?

[WAGON_BOY]

Theo, did it ping at open throttle giving it some or cruise light throttle?

atleast half throttle or more, i dunno why it didnt automatically downshift if it was struggling that hard cos i know when im in 5th and go up a hill it'll still downshift.

[WAGON_BOY]

With target AFR's on wot? Sounds dangerous. What happens if/when the sensor needs calibration or drifts in accuracy? That is the reason I don't use it for automated ethanol content tuning. Perhaps if you had two sensors with the signal being compared constantly?

It will stoich tune the light load with the narrowband signal input, but this wouldn't help with Wagon boy's issues as it is already on boost and well into the closed loop part of map.

but i was only sitting around the 2500rpm @ 12psi i think..... i was feeding to much throttle and the boost creapt, but the fuel didnt keep up with the demand i guess

[WAGON_BOY]

I don't understand what you hope to do with the wideband, are you hoping it will tune itself using the self tune function? That isn't how it works.

Have you spoken to the tuner yet?

i'm not hoping for self tuning i just want it to be able to adjust the fuel slightly according to conditions to make sure its getting what it needs and is at a steady A/F ratio.

[bigkevracer]

With target AFR's on wot? Sounds dangerous. What happens if/when the sensor needs calibration or drifts in accuracy? That is the reason I don't use it for automated ethanol content tuning. Perhaps if you had two sensors with the signal being compared constantly?

It will stoich tune the light load with the narrowband signal input, but this wouldn't help with Wagon boy's issues as it is already on boost and well into the closed loop part of map.

So you've discounted the flex fuel idea?

The stoich tune is what I was looking at. I wouldn't imagine you could hook a wideband up and get it to self tune throughout the rev range. Otherwise why would you need someone to tune it?

[WAGON_BOY]

ok i'm lost in the jargon.

seeing as im getting a "right bank running rich" fault (0172) and if i pull out the O2 sensor i get a "O2 sensor heat circuit" fault (0135)

i want to know how to fix it in the best possible out come so the car runs as normal, be it by using a wideband or just turning off the O2 sensor output on the F-con.

because atm the car is not running the tune correctly because the ECU is adding or subtracting about 25% fuel and probably changing the timing aswell.

all in all i want the car to run with the tune on the f-con as if it was the stock ECU and not create extra faults and drama's

[scotty nm35]

The Fcon tune doesn't change, in fuel or timing and the stock ecu has no control over either, only the cams and throttle. The Fcon will adjust your cruise/light load AFR's using the stock o2 sensor if it is enabled in the tune, but mine doesn't do that so I can't really help. Best to speak to your tuner.

Mine has been in fault for years, are you really that worried the engine light is up? Remember you have essentially cut the stock ecu out of the equation, it is bound to get cranky.

The pinking won't be fuel related, it will be timing. Again, speak to your tuner and tell him what it is doing and when, all it will need is a little timing backed out in those low revs.

[PN-Mad]

The Fcon tune doesn't change, in fuel or timing and the stock ecu has no control over either, only the cams and throttle. The Fcon will adjust your cruise/light load AFR's using the stock o2 sensor if it is enabled in the tune, but mine doesn't do that so I can't really help. Best to speak to your tuner.

Mine has been in fault for years, are you really that worried the engine light is up? Remember you have essentially cut the stock ecu out of the equation, it is bound to get cranky.

The pinking won't be fuel related, it will be timing. Again, speak to your tuner and tell him what it is doing and when, all it will need is a little timing backed out in those low revs.

Scotty- the thing you are missing is that I logged Theos car a couple of weekends ago. The O2 sensor AF correction is doing a weird thing whereby it cycles from one extreme to the other in adding and taking away fuel- upto the maximums of 125% and 75%

This is the reason it is getting the Bank rich code.

I don't think it would be ign timing related otherwise it would have showed on the dyno, and Jez tunes very safe.

I'm not 100% as to whats creating the problem with the AFR correction, but only what I have been told by the guys in the UK is that the computer doesn't like it if the original cell values are too far out for the AFR to correct. A stock car with run +- 5% AFR correction. This I think would be the first place to look.

[scotty nm35]

SO turn the correction off. It should have been tuned initially with it off, then enabled anyway so I don't see how it could be that far out, unless there are leaks etc. (I assume Jez smoke tested the intake as usual though?)

Was it doing this on the dyno? I still think it is heat related if it only does it under load on hills. Perhaps get on www.etuner.com.au and ask Cihan what he thinks, he can be quite helpful with simple fixes and advice.

[WAGON_BOY]

SO turn the correction off. It should have been tuned initially with it off, then enabled anyway so I don't see how it could be that far out, unless there are leaks etc. (I assume Jez smoke tested the intake as usual though?)

Was it doing this on the dyno? I still think it is heat related if it only does it under load on hills. Perhaps get on www.etuner.com.au and ask Cihan what he thinks, he can be quite helpful with simple fixes and advice.

i only notice it ping on load up a hill

but the fuel correction is with everyday driving under normal conditions

[scotty nm35]

That is what the stock o2 sensor does, it cycles lean to rich quite a few times a minute. Without seeing the logs I can't comment but I think you are being led up the garden path with it.

Go back to Jez and get the tune sorted, he will most probably drop some timing in that low rev high load part of the map. It wouldn't have been tuned properly due to the auto kicking down on the dyno, it is probably hard to replicate that one cell that is causing the issue. It may be a 5 minute fix.

[DVS JEZ]

Spot on Scotty, Theo's car wouldnt hold in gear during a power run unless above 4000rpm so was impossible to replicate high load low rpm, Theo bring it back and we can turn the 02 feedback off again and recheck the tune,

Maybe u should get a highflow before u bring it back

[PN-Mad]

I'll post a screen shot of the log tonight if Theo says thats OK.

The thing its doing is not reading properly Scott. When we had it on idle, it was counting up and counting down in a pattern. Not flicking round like a normal O2 sensor would do. So it would go 100%, 99, 98, 97, 96 etc etc right down the scale in even fashion.

What you actually want to do, is make sure that the low rev high load area is out of O2 correction, becuase this cycling won't provide a solid fueling basis for whatever your doing with the timing. You can take a couple of degrees timing out, but its still not going to help you if your ECU is dropping 25% of fuel or adding 25% of fuel.

Road tune time.

Let me know if you want to borrow my logging stuff, if the HKS doesn't do logs and graphs.

[DVS JEZ]

Cheers. Yes i think we should do as Scotty has suggested, turn 02 feedback off then check/adjust timing where necessary

[WAGON_BOY]

Maybe u should get a highflow before u bring it back

LOL i wish HEHE

i've got an RDO on the 26th or the 27/28th is fine aswell or the following weekend