Fail To Give Way - To Challenge Or Not To Challenge In Court?

[some_cs_student]

Hi,

So I'm getting the hint that irrelevant of what happened, the chances of winning are close to zero.

Anyway, this intersection http://www.nearmap.com/[email protected],145.2544324&ll=-38.046355,145.254743&z=21&t=h&nmd=20110120

Banked up / congested traffic in two lanes, I pass the 2 lanes of congested traffic and a car hits me by attempting to pass the traffic down the turning lane at about 50km/h

I could argue that the left lane is a slip lane, but then it could be argued I failed to give way to someone in the slip lane, even if they were driving illegally.

It was impossible to see past the banked traffic and the driver shouldn't have been there, nor should have he been driving at 50 or 60km/h.

Insurance is sorted, he lost.

Should I challenge the police fine in court? The other drive was charged with careless driving I think...

Thanks,

Gareth

[R31Nismoid]

Did he admit fault to insurance?

But your description doesn't make much sense either way... Im confused.

Draw some arrows or something as it sounds like you are both doing the same thing...

[htial]

Are you saying you were following the road markings and he was driving over them?

Draw up some arrows with the car placement.

[CrispyFries]

You were turning right off South Gippsland Hwy southbound?

[ssxRicho]

??

[Cowboy1600]

If ssxRicho has it correct, I'd fight the fcuk out of it.

Failure to give way to someone using a left hand turn lane to undertake?

Fcuk that.

"He was in the left hand turn lane so it was fair to assume he was turning left, your Honor."

"He may or may not have been indicating, I cannot recall."

"He was travelling so fast, which as you would agree when a car is travelling directly towards you can be very difficult to judge, that by the time I realised he was travelling straight through rather than turning left, he was on me."

"If everyone was expected to sit there and only pull out once the lefthand turn lane was empty, then no traffic would EVER have the opportunity to turn. The lefthand turn lane is always busy so you must assume that cars are using it legally, unlike the gentleman who hit me."

[CrispyFries]

I thought he was turning into that road rather out based on the "pass 2 lanes of congested traffic" but...

Intersections

After stopping at a Stop sign or line, or when facing a Give Way sign or line at an intersection, you must give way to any vehicle in, entering or approaching the intersection except:

* a vehicle making a U-turn

* a vehicle turning left using a slip lane

* an oncoming vehicle turning right if that vehicle is also facing a Stop or Give Way sign or line.

When turning at an intersection (not including a roundabout) you must give way to pedestrians crossing the road you are turning into and also pedestrians on a slip lane, when turning using a slip lane.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/RoadRules/GiveWay.htm

[Serg]

I live close to where that happen! I hate peak hour traffic their!! Sometimes you get 4x4 undertaking on the dirt all the way up the road and they always get away with it.

If ssxRicho drawring is right, fight it!

They are counting on you to cop it, as everyone does with minor fines... And most fines are won because of them not being prepared.

But sadly in vic, youre guilty by default and it is incredibly hard to fight from what my solicitor says, magistrates court for fines, forget it. County court you have better chances... (Some if not all cases with fines you have to to plea guilty then appeal it to go to County court, but im no expert, just told by my solicitor)

Anyways, good luck!

[scotty nm35]

Its my house, lol. I live opposite that pos intersection. There is a bad accident there every week caused by the build up of traffic and impatient drivers.

I had a lady doing the exact turn you were. She got T boned, her throttle got stuck and she drove straight into my workshop. (with me in it) Its only a matter of time before there is a fatality there.

I have no idea why the road was put in (a few years ago), its the local racetrack, 60 zone but most people do 80 - 100 down it, the local dumping ground for stolen cars too which usually get set alight, and every second falcodore lights the tyres around the corner just to be cool.

I would fight it, drivers have always been using the emergency lanes both sides of the highway to get up to the left lane at the lights, overtaking 50 or more cars at a time. It pisses other drivers off and shouldn't be tolerated because its dangerous, one day someone innocent will die from it. The cops should be booking him not hassling you.

[ssxRicho]

Even if you were coming from the other side of the road, ie from right to left. It is the same deal, as that lane is a slip lane you had every right to expect the car in that lane to be turning left off the hwy. If that driver in the slip lane had obied the signals on the road there wouldnt have been an incident. While the slip lane does merge there, the speed of the impact, the direction of which the car that hit you etc etc should all point to that driver not indenting to merge. Thus negating any claim that you failed to give way to a merging vehicle.

[some_cs_student]

Even if you were coming from the other side of the road, ie from right to left. It is the same deal, as that lane is a slip lane you had every right to expect the car in that lane to be turning left off the hwy. If that driver in the slip lane had obied the signals on the road there wouldnt have been an incident. While the slip lane does merge there, the speed of the impact, the direction of which the car that hit you etc etc should all point to that driver not indenting to merge. Thus negating any claim that you failed to give way to a merging vehicle.

Sorry, forum is inaccessible from work

The driver admitted that he was going to turn left but "changed his mind". In other words he was passing traffic down a slip lane.

He hit me at high speed, he ended up on the RHS of that traffic island. My car ended up spun around (and over the giveway sign).

You can laugh at my diagram, just not on the forum

Any advice appreciated, its obviously quite stressful, although I'm much less stressed now that insurance have sorted things out

[some_cs_student]

Did he admit fault to insurance?

But your description doesn't make much sense either way... Im confused.

Draw some arrows or something as it sounds like you are both doing the same thing...

Sorry about the description, I should have put some more effort into that post.

He denied fault, my insurance said they will recover the money from the other company. As driving illegally in a slip lane, is well.....driving illegally.

[some_cs_student]

<cut>

I would fight it, drivers have always been using the emergency lanes both sides of the highway to get up to the left lane at the lights, overtaking 50 or more cars at a time. It pisses other drivers off and shouldn't be tolerated because its dangerous, one day someone innocent will die from it. The cops should be booking him not hassling you.

They booked both drivers with the reasoning "it was an accident" and that I didn't see him. I can't see through stopped cars unfortunately. I left my X-ray vision at home that morning, right next to my spider sense.

[R31Nismoid]

Technically speaking, you did fail to give way to a moving vehicle based upon your description.

So yes he was @ fault for not following road laws, you are also guilty

Thats a fken messy situation because of how the road it. If you are going to contest - get a lawyer.

I think its very unreasonable and a typical example of Police wasting public money/cash grabbing as logic would tell you charges are unreasonable.

[some_cs_student]

Ok I tried, still looks terrible.

Red is the bad car.

Blue is me, I couldn't fix the colour for some reason.

Black in neutral cars.

Keep in mind he was doing 60km/h and I was doing 5-10km/h, so I didn't see him until he hit me. He didn't even brake.

[some_cs_student]

Technically speaking, you did fail to give way to a moving vehicle based upon your description.

<cut>

I think its very unreasonable and a typical example of Police wasting public money/cash grabbing as logic would tell you charges are unreasonable.

Technically speaking if I was driving the wrong way up a freeway and I hit you, you didn't give way....

Yes its unreasonable, I've been told the chance of winning is close to zero. I can't really afford the lawyer so I'm deciding whether to go it alone or drop it and take the 3 demerit points.

The chance of the court raising it is unlikely, but chance of winning is slim, the judge would have to be having a great day to even listen.

[htial]

The way you've drawn it I'd say it might be a little harder to fight it, because even though he is doing the wrong thing by going straight, when you turn right there you are also required to give way to all three oncoming traffic lanes, which includes the left turn lane.

You could argue that if he was going to turn left there the two of you would have had plenty of space, (based on the sand built up on the road), to enter the street together. But because he was not following the directed road marking, his driving has been the cause of the collision.

[R31Nismoid]

Technically speaking if I was driving the wrong way up a freeway and I hit you, you didn't give way....

Laith put it better than i did

His meaning it what i was getting at lol...

[Downforce]

In that situation you're obliged to give way to the car turning left in the left most lane, but since he decided to travel straight, thereby ignoring the markings on the road, he was in the wrong (and probably why insurance says he's at fault). Might not be worth your time taking it to court though, but agree with Ash if you do go then get a lawyer.

[htial]

Laith put it better than i did

His meaning it what i was getting at lol...

It's always important to be clear and simple... ...a mate of mine was t-boned by a police car that was driving with full lights and siren... ...he was turning left out of a side street onto Springvale road... ...the police car did a u-turn and got him in the drivers door... ...he argued that even though the police car was under L&S, an indicator stating the intention to do a u-turn looks a lot like an indicator stating the intention to do a right turn...

Because he didn't try to bamboozle the judge like the cop did, he got all his fees and out of pocket paid by VicPol...

But in the OPs case, it's going to be really hard, just for the simple fact you are meant to give way to all oncoming traffic when turning right...

If there was a traffic island, be it built up or painted, then you might have a better argument...