What Track Car Would You Buy? - Starting With A Clean Slate

[kingscorp]

Some nice oversteer there on both videos!

Is the RX7 running an inlet restrictor? Is it same power as the Nissan?

Yeah both have trouble getting the power down. The Nissan is harded to get out of corners, for 2 reasons.

1. the multilink rear end is hard to get working, especially as its and Improved production car, so we have to use original suspension arms.

2. The restrictor means we cant rev the engine very high, the air just can get to the engine. So to make it go we have lots of torque early in the rev range. This makes it hard to hook up because it comes on extreemly hard. Rev range 3500 - 5800 rpm

200sx, 36mm turbo restrictor, 11:1 comp & 25psi to make 348rwhp @ 4500 - 6000rpm (with 36mm restrictor, 50mm away from intake wheel)

obviously the restrictor really hurts the HP!

RX7 FD, Unrestricted 13b Bridgeport & 20psi TO4Z to make 450rwhp @ 7800rpm spinning on dyno (can have more, but with only 225/50/16 R Comps it just spins the tyres more)

The FD is oversteery because its undertyred

Ash

Edited December 29, 2011 by kingscorp

[Russman]

GTST will just do big skids

I beg to differ

[kingscorp]

Show me all the R33 GTST racecars in Australia or even around the world that are setting lap records and winning championships?

Yes they are a good car and a budget circuit car, but far from ideal

[kingscorp]

I beg to differ

show me?

[Duncan]

Show me all the R33 GTST racecars in Australia or even around the world that are setting lap records and winning championships?

well for that matter, show me the list of nissans (2wd or 4wd) that have won a national or state champs in the last 5 years?

[kingscorp]

well for that matter, show me the list of nissans (2wd or 4wd) that have won a national or state champs in the last 5 years?

S14 200sx - 2nd by 2 points in WA State Improved Production State Championship + Lap record holder + many race wins (2010) Barnett Motorsport

Dave Loftes BSM R32 GTR - 2007 National and State Champion Improved Production + Still a lap record holder

Andrew Stevens 180SX - 1st WA Street Car Championships (2010) Street Cars Website

Paul Kluck R32 RB26 GTST - 2nd by 3 points WA Street Car Championship (2011)

I'm sure there will be more on the east coast

ash

[Roy]

East Coast? You must be kidding. No money over here. Only people on the West Coast are earning enough coin to race

I dont think there is anything an S13/14/15 can do that an R33 GTS25T couldnt do as well or better..but would need to consider the class of racign and mods allowed.

Sure weight could always be a factor...but youu have 500cc, and bigger tyres...and by the time you throw a box in the S chassis the weights equalise by about 30kgs

Fact is S platforms have more success than GTSts because if you are going to play with an RB then you go GTR, not rwd. The LF Performance R32 was a good example that if you do the basics to a car then you can get good results. You may be able to comment on the cars merits/disadvantages better then the rest of us as I am guessing you raced against it

[Duncan]

haha good research....only a little hurt that you left my national championship off And it makes the point that nothing nissan is doing much at all at the serious level of motorsport. The 2 winners you listed were 1x rwd and 1x 4wd....and both in the strange world of IPRA racing.

The fact remains, a 33 gtst is an excellent choice for a track car - cheap to buy, easy to find bits, easy to power up, can run large tyres for it's size, double wishbone all round unlike the S chassis.

[kingscorp]

East Coast? You must be kidding. No money over here. Only people on the West Coast are earning enough coin to race

I dont think there is anything an S13/14/15 can do that an R33 GTS25T couldnt do as well or better..but would need to consider the class of racign and mods allowed.

Sure weight could always be a factor...but youu have 500cc, and bigger tyres...and by the time you throw a box in the S chassis the weights equalise by about 30kgs

Fact is S platforms have more success than GTSts because if you are going to play with an RB then you go GTR, not rwd. The LF Performance R32 was a good example that if you do the basics to a car then you can get good results. You may be able to comment on the cars merits/disadvantages better then the rest of us as I am guessing you raced against it

Just get a loan :-0

Will you get bigger tyres on a R33 over a S14/15, they take pretty big tyre.

Do you seriously recon a R33 could get to with in 30kgs of a S chassis? My Caged S14 is 1130kgs and thats with R33 box and GTR diff and shafts.

Exactly, if you are seriously going to play with a RB, its normally in a GTR.

Yes i raced against it. The LF R32 car wasn't exactlly a Basic car, Fancy RB26, PPG Dog box and developed by LF and Kerry Wade, who is one of WA's best. They put some serious dollars in it. Kerry will even tell you cant get the multilink rear to work very well, he told be I would never my S14 rear end to work.

This video may be better to watch

Edited December 30, 2011 by kingscorp

[Roy]

Do you seriously recon a R33 could get to with in 30kgs of a S chassis? My Caged S14 is 1130kgs and thats with R33 box and GTR diff and shafts.

Sorry, I meant to say by the time you throw an RB25 box at the S14 the S14 will be 30kgs heavier, equalising a little of the weight disadvantage the R33 has. I doubt a sensibly lightened R33 GTS25t could get to below 1200kgs. I think 1250kgs is probably more like it.

The LF R32 car wasn't exactlly a Basic car, Fancy RB26, PPG Dog box and developed by LF and Kerry Wade, who is one of WA's best. They put some serious dollars in it. Kerry will even tell you cant get the multilink rear to work very well, he told be I would never my S14 rear end to work.

I mean, its was one of the few GTSt that have all boxes ticked. Too many have engines, and thats it. He had the brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox, cooling aspects all addressed. The RB26 was nothing exotic, PPG gearbox almost a std in that category. And the rear ends are not brilliant, but they are easily up to the job if set up properly. Over an 6-12 lap race is a different story though as you may work the rear tyre a little too hard with the weight, power and geometry

[kingscorp]

Sorry, I meant to say by the time you throw an RB25 box at the S14 the S14 will be 30kgs heavier, equalising a little of the weight disadvantage the R33 has. I doubt a sensibly lightened R33 GTS25t could get to below 1200kgs. I think 1250kgs is probably more like it.

I mean, its was one of the few GTSt that have all boxes ticked. Too many have engines, and thats it. He had the brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox, cooling aspects all addressed. The RB26 was nothing exotic, PPG gearbox almost a std in that category. And the rear ends are not brilliant, but they are easily up to the job if set up properly. Over an 6-12 lap race is a different story though as you may work the rear tyre a little too hard with the weight, power and geometry

I agree

[JZP]

1325230266[/url]' post='6169742']

haha good research....only a little hurt that you left my national championship off And it makes the point that nothing nissan is doing much at all at the serious level of motorsport. The 2 winners you listed were 1x rwd and 1x 4wd....and both in the strange world of IPRA racing.

The fact remains, a 33 gtst is an excellent choice for a track car - cheap to buy, easy to find bits, easy to power up, can run large tyres for it's size, double wishbone all round unlike the S chassis.

I love the debate, all I wanted was opinions on a cost effective track car, which Dunan quite rightly brings it back to the point. I think the basics of handling and grip serve all race cars well. It's pretty obvious if you have deep pockets almost anything is possible

Now to see if I'm any good on the track.......

[N1GTR]

Yeah both have trouble getting the power down. The Nissan is harded to get out of corners, for 2 reasons.

1. the multilink rear end is hard to get working, especially as its and Improved production car, so we have to use original suspension arms.

2. The restrictor means we cant rev the engine very high, the air just can get to the engine. So to make it go we have lots of torque early in the rev range. This makes it hard to hook up because it comes on extreemly hard. Rev range 3500 - 5800 rpm

200sx, 36mm turbo restrictor, 11:1 comp & 25psi to make 348rwhp @ 4500 - 6000rpm (with 36mm restrictor, 50mm away from intake wheel)

obviously the restrictor really hurts the HP!

RX7 FD, Unrestricted 13b Bridgeport & 20psi TO4Z to make 450rwhp @ 7800rpm spinning on dyno (can have more, but with only 225/50/16 R Comps it just spins the tyres more)

The FD is oversteery because its undertyred

Ash

Thanks for that!

So the RX7 was before the S14? If thats right, why did you move to the Nissan if the RX7 is already a light and well setup car?

I know we are all Nissan fans on here, but looking at this from someone's view who doesnt mind other makes, the FD RX7 seems like a good buy (except run wider than standard rubber of course). Do you remember the max HP you reached with it before turning it down to save the tyres? Surely an FD with all unrequired gear taken off/out (Aircon, interior, sound deadener etc) on the widest tyres that fit under the stock guards would be a good base these days with the prices for them as they are.

[toffy]

you do realise a r33 is essentially a s14 with a longer wheel base and double wishbone front? , for a low budget track car i doubt you'll find anything (rwd) as easy to maintain as the two , the r33 is slightly heavier but also stronger and (arguably) is more responsive to modifications at a light level

[kingscorp]

haha good research....only a little hurt that you left my national championship off And it makes the point that nothing nissan is doing much at all at the serious level of motorsport. The 2 winners you listed were 1x rwd and 1x 4wd....and both in the strange world of IPRA racing.

The fact remains, a 33 gtst is an excellent choice for a track car - cheap to buy, easy to find bits, easy to power up, can run large tyres for it's size, double wishbone all round unlike the S chassis.

Sorry Dunc, was not sure which championship you won?

Yes, I agree a R33 a good choice of car to have fun with on a budget.

Ash

[kingscorp]

Thanks for that!

So the RX7 was before the S14? If thats right, why did you move to the Nissan if the RX7 is already a light and well setup car?

I know we are all Nissan fans on here, but looking at this from someone's view who doesnt mind other makes, the FD RX7 seems like a good buy (except run wider than standard rubber of course). Do you remember the max HP you reached with it before turning it down to save the tyres? Surely an FD with all unrequired gear taken off/out (Aircon, interior, sound deadener etc) on the widest tyres that fit under the stock guards would be a good base these days with the prices for them as they are.

I have been lucky enough to have had a rew different race cars. Datto 1600's, Mitsi Scorpion with EVO engine to name a few.

The RX7 is not my car, I just get to drive it. The S14a is my car! For 2012 we are running the RX7 in Sports sedans. So on with the 265 slicks and up with the HP, also changes to the shocks/springs to suit the slicks. MAybe a different gearbox

We dont focus too much on peak HP, more a broad torque curve. I am expecting high 400's maybe 500 at the wheels for 2012. Anymore than that the rotarys start to get a bit unreliable.

The RX7 FD would have to be the best base for a cheap price. Its not until you get underneath them to you realise they really are a well engineeried sports car. Double Wishbone alloy suspension (like open wheeler), Perfect weight split. They also have a torque tube that joins the gearbox to the diff. This prevents the diff pinion from moving up and down and uses all its power to turn the wheels, not pusheing the diff in its housing.

The down side is it sounds like shit!

Best thing is they are extreemly light, I recon with some more effort and $$ we could get ours down to 1020kgs

Ash

[kingscorp]

you do realise a r33 is essentially a s14 with a longer wheel base and double wishbone front? , for a low budget track car i doubt you'll find anything (rwd) as easy to maintain as the two , the r33 is slightly heavier but also stronger and (arguably) is more responsive to modifications at a light level

Yes I do realise that, and I agree with you, as I have said the R33 is a good track car on a budget.

I really think you need to work out where you want to end up racing. If you just want to hack around at speed events and have some fun the R33 will be fine.

I just prefer lighter race cars, weight is a killer for a race car. A cast iron 6 cylinder engine hanging over the front axle wont help matters. A S chassis has a alloy 4 cyclinder engine behind (or leval) with the front axle.

Sure a SR wont produce as much power as a RB25 or 26, but it dosent need to as its lighter, less weight to accelerate, brake and turn. Around Wanneroo raceway the rule of thumb is every 10kgs of weight will add 1/10th of a second to your lap time.

You also have to consider the extra running costs a heavier car has. extra tyre wear, brake wear, fuel consuption and so on, this all adds to the cost of a "Budget Track Car"

Ash

[kingscorp]

Some motivation pics for you.

Its 1.25am and Im a little bored!

Ash

[mattah]

If you can find one at a good price, a track only FD is a great car. My brother was lucky to get one for around 10k with a big single turbo. Did sub 1 minute lap times at Wanneroo first time out, straight off the boat with only 260hp (maxing out the stock injectors) and the old tyres it had on it from Japan. Bigger injectors, better tyres, a retune and more seat time would see significantly faster laps.

Spending anything up to 10-15k on a Nissan I think you'd have trouble getting an R33 or even an S14 to match an S13. You can pick S13s up for absolute peanuts and most of the structural problems with them (rear suspension, jelly chassis) can be fixed very cheaply.

[kingscorp]

If you can find one at a good price, a track only FD is a great car. My brother was lucky to get one for around 10k with a big single turbo. Did sub 1 minute lap times at Wanneroo first time out, straight off the boat with only 260hp (maxing out the stock injectors) and the old tyres it had on it from Japan. Bigger injectors, better tyres, a retune and more seat time would see significantly faster laps.

Spending anything up to 10-15k on a Nissan I think you'd have trouble getting an R33 or even an S14 to match an S13. You can pick S13s up for absolute peanuts and most of the structural problems with them (rear suspension, jelly chassis) can be fixed very cheaply.

Yeah they are good cars.

Sub 1 minute on the short track? Sub 1 minute on the long track is V8 supercar times.