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Turbo Vehicles And What Could Have Been...

jjman

By jjman,
in General Automotive Discussion

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simpletool Mentor

simpletool

Posted
Posted

Good points there Zebra. I'm unsure of the head room in direct injection applications.....something for the future.

If Toyota are serious about the future they need something to complete with the DI turbo engines from Europe. I mean VW makes a 2.0L DI engine for the Gti and it ends up in about 20 models from VW, Seat, Audi, etc.

I can't see why a DI turbo 2.0L can't be made for the FT86 and detuned slightly for use in Rav4, Camry, Levin/corolla, Rukus, Tarago, or anything under 1700kg really.

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babyskyline Grand Master

babyskyline

Posted
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Good points there Zebra. I'm unsure of the head room in direct injection applications.....something for the future.

If Toyota are serious about the future they need something to complete with the DI turbo engines from Europe. I mean VW makes a 2.0L DI engine for the Gti and it ends up in about 20 models from VW, Seat, Audi, etc.

I can't see why a DI turbo 2.0L can't be made for the FT86 and detuned slightly for use in Rav4, Camry, Levin/corolla, Rukus, Tarago, or anything under 1700kg really.

Put simply it wouldnt work for toyota. The simple fact that the people buying those toyots's are not the sort of people who would ever really drive a turbo. camry = older people and families. Same sort of people buy the rav4 and corolla.

It would be the wrong engine for the wrong cars that are bought by people who dont drive vehicles with those engines.

Look at the super charged aurion...toyota didnt exactly sell a hell of a lot of those.

More sporty coupes would definitly be the answer

mad082 Grand Master

mad082

Posted
Posted

a lot of people who drive rav4's, camry's, etc, don't really give a shit what the motor is. a large portion couldn't tell you what size the motor even was. toyota didn't sell many supercharged aurions for the same reason the supercharged magna/380s were never a bigger seller. lots of power through fwd. being fwd keeps the rev heads out, and the extra cost keeps the grandpa's out (who are the main market of aurions and to a lesser extent 380s). had either one been rwd they would've sold heaps of them.

put simply, a turbo diesel motor in nearly any car will sell well because of the way they drive and the fuel economy. that is the reason why they sell well in small cars and 4wds. the first company to put a diesel into a large car will do very well (provided they put the right engine in).

iplen Mentor

iplen

Posted
Posted

Territory has TD now, so the Falcon can't be far off. Don't expect to see many (if any) new straight 6 motors coming along, the packaging required does not allow for straight motors nowadays, when v motors are getting to be much more refined nowadays. Would love to hear from the blokes who find this thread funny, I understand you have said it draw attention to how much more knowleadgeable you are than all of us... But I am happy to listen and learn

Galois Veteran

Galois

Posted
Posted

a lot of people who drive rav4's, camry's, etc, don't really give a shit what the motor is. a large portion couldn't tell you what size the motor even was. toyota didn't sell many supercharged aurions for the same reason the supercharged magna/380s were never a bigger seller. lots of power through fwd. being fwd keeps the rev heads out, and the extra cost keeps the grandpa's out (who are the main market of aurions and to a lesser extent 380s). had either one been rwd they would've sold heaps of them.

put simply, a turbo diesel motor in nearly any car will sell well because of the way they drive and the fuel economy. that is the reason why they sell well in small cars and 4wds. the first company to put a diesel into a large car will do very well (provided they put the right engine in).

Lol my first car was a camry (old one '94, wasn't a brilliant car but better to drive than any of the newer models imo), did not car/know anything about the engine.

Why on earth did toyota and mitsubishi not make those cars awd. I said it at the time of the supercharged aurion too, what were they thinking?! Surely it cannot be THAT much more expensive to develop?

babyskyline Grand Master

babyskyline

Posted
Posted

Lol my first car was a camry (old one '94, wasn't a brilliant car but better to drive than any of the newer models imo), did not car/know anything about the engine.

Why on earth did toyota and mitsubishi not make those cars awd. I said it at the time of the supercharged aurion too, what were they thinking?! Surely it cannot be THAT much more expensive to develop?

Probably the same reason they made the new fj cruiser a v6 petrol auto and market it as a take anywhere off-roader...the guys at the top making the decisions have no idea.

jjman Mentor

jjman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

a lot of people who drive rav4's, camry's, etc, don't really give a shit what the motor is. a large portion couldn't tell you what size the motor even was. toyota didn't sell many supercharged aurions for the same reason the supercharged magna/380s were never a bigger seller. lots of power through fwd. being fwd keeps the rev heads out, and the extra cost keeps the grandpa's out (who are the main market of aurions and to a lesser extent 380s). had either one been rwd they would've sold heaps of them.

put simply, a turbo diesel motor in nearly any car will sell well because of the way they drive and the fuel economy. that is the reason why they sell well in small cars and 4wds. the first company to put a diesel into a large car will do very well (provided they put the right engine in).

exactly. people will drive it if it fulfills thier requirements. If you f*k it up and end up not appealing to your customers then they wont buy it.

Ill drive a 50cc 1 cyclinder if it has 300 at the ground and delivers it like my skyline does now. As will most people drive a car with whatever motor if it does the job they ask of it.

simpletool Mentor

simpletool

Posted
Posted (edited)

Put simply it wouldnt work for toyota. The simple fact that the people buying those toyots's are not the sort of people who would ever really drive a turbo. camry = older people and families. Same sort of people buy the rav4 and corolla.

It would be the wrong engine for the wrong cars that are bought by people who dont drive vehicles with those engines.

Look at the super charged aurion...toyota didnt exactly sell a hell of a lot of those.

More sporty coupes would definitly be the answer

I meant that a detuned Toyota engine similar to the 2.0L turbo from VW is not really a TURBO engine....more a torquey small capacity engine with good fuel economy....ala Audi/VW applications. So the people buying them needn't know it was even turbo - just like the VW/Audi customers. It just delivers good torque from a small engine in a larger car.

the engine would be small turbo low revs and the FT86 engine would be larger turbo, more revs ala..Tiguan (125kw) Golf Gti (147kw) vs Golf R (188kw), Audi (199kw)

Edited by simpletool
mad082 Grand Master

mad082

Posted
Posted

Lol my first car was a camry (old one '94, wasn't a brilliant car but better to drive than any of the newer models imo), did not car/know anything about the engine.

Why on earth did toyota and mitsubishi not make those cars awd. I said it at the time of the supercharged aurion too, what were they thinking?! Surely it cannot be THAT much more expensive to develop?

mitsubishi did do an awd magna. didn't alter sales much. fwd is cheaper than rwd and awd. awd in a family size car just makes them even heavier as well as increasing the chance of breaking things when given a hard time. for them to develope it for just a sports model would make it much more expensive, especially since they would need to alter the floor pan as well as the whole rear suspension. would add a buttload to the cost of the car.

iplen Mentor

iplen

Posted
Posted

The AWD basics for the Aurion already exists under the Kluger and Rav, to show just how much that car was hampered, it was only about 4 seconds quicker around Oran Park than the TRD Hilux...

Turbo Diesel is not really as fantastic as people make out at times, the v8 twin td Landcruiser needs to do about 200,000k before you get the $10k extra back, that's before the service and oil costs... Yes the torque is great, and they make it really early, but it is often for a pretty small range generally, they are getting better though

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jjman Mentor

jjman

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Bit of an update to further substantiate this arguement.

New BMW M5- will now be a twin turbo V8 (replacing the atmo V10)

also strong rumours are that the next ferrari hypercar- eg the F40-F50-Enzo lineage- is also rumoured to be twin turbo V8.:cheers:

oh yes, bring on the boost.... :worship:

Edited by jjman
Galois Veteran

Galois

Posted
Posted

Bit of an update to further substantiate this arguement.

New BMW M5- will now be a twin turbo V8 (replacing the atmo V10)

also strong rumours are that the next ferrari hypercar- eg the F40-F50-Enzo lineage- is also rumoured to be twin turbo V8.:cheers:

oh yes, bring on the boost.... :worship:

Wasn't that brought about due to emission law changes?

Regardless it won't be a power reduction!!

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