truck coolers? you opinion.

[R31Nismoid]

Um, I think that just about closes this thread.....

why?

he aint god.

Anyhow, I've personally seen dj_lethals car...

With what was a truck core of some description, and then he moved to a Trust core.

There was a noticeable difference.

he noticed it and said there was a difference no questions asked.

But they cant be too bad, going back to VL's etc that run your happy 11 with nothing more than truck cores, with new end tanks.

Take it as you will i guess.

[R31Nismoid]

Also if anyone has ever looked at the original Nizpro cores(the massive ones)they are definitly truck cores, Simon must of made a mint of these as he charged around 2 grand when new.

you wanna go around and turn this into a commodore forum?

dont go bagging workshops based on what you 'think'

[Nismo_Boy]

Dont be a tight Jew at hanika (sp). buy something good to start with.

[BHDave]

Greddy turbos, as SKid has pointedly referred to, are a Mitsubisi Heavy Industry product found on commercial vehicles.

CFM is CFM, and if it can work (and work well) in an application that it wasn't specifically designed for then what's the problem?

Funnily enough, theres a bit of development work you forgot to mention.

Bolt a turbo off a truck onto your car and pay the price. A Trust isn't just a rebadged Mitsubishi turbo, it is a high output car turbo based on a truck core and covers with different comp and exhaust wheels.

And OHR-30T a 400 hp truck core isn't ging to flow 400 hp once you cut it down becauses power, whether it's form a 2L or a 10L engine is based primarily on airflow (and efficiency) and once you remove half the cores it's only a 200hp core simple as that. 400 hp requires 400 hp worth of air, you may find theres a 20% difference in engine efficiency between the two engines so the half cut down core may actually be able to make about 220hp on a 2L. Still not great.

[Steve]

...... and if it can work (and work well) in an application that it wasn't specifically designed for then what's the problem?

thats the thing IF, if means R&D, you may get it right the first time, you may not. Companies spend huge sums of money to get a good cooler design/end tank setup - to think you can just slap a cut down truck core on a car with a couple of end tanks, and you will get it to work well - jeez, if only it was that easy, intercoolers would probably cost 3-400 each.

intercoolers can be good and can be bad - make sure you buy a good one the first time and you will definately reap the rewards. If someone wants to sell you a cooler, ask what testing they have done. If they cant give you repeatable results, and actual figures, they havent done their R&D.

I dont think try09s is a good example, his car is just slightly moddified, and its requirements dont represent those of the average street car, even if it is mildly tuned (under 350rwkw).

As soon as you start talking about drag cars, the whole point of the discussion is being somewhat missed - drag cars also do well without intercoolers.

another 0.02:)

[FitzTech]

just to let everybody know most intercooler cores on trucks have a very different fin design. they are designed for the typical inlet temperatures of a diesel(far less than a petrol) therefore do not need to cool the air as much as a petrol engine. if u want to use a truck intercooler core i suggest you run a thermo fan if not 2 so as to get sufficient cooling otherwise stick with application specific cores.

[R31Nismoid]

whether it's form a 2L or a 10L engine is based primarily on airflow (and efficiency) and once you remove half the cores it's only a 200hp core simple as that. 400 hp requires 400 hp worth of air,

maybe i got it all wrong *dodges the flame*

a 10ltr motor... would require more air than a 2ltr motor to make 400hp wouldnt it?

So chopping the core wouldnt be a problem.

Or am i just dumb :confused:

either way i've got a big ARC I/C

[DoughBoy]

drag cars also do well without intercoolers.

Show me a drag car without an intercooler and i'll show you someone running at the back of the pack on a very tight budget (and probably having a frustrating, but good, time).

[EnricoPalazzo]

Doughboy, John Munro, with his 9sec GTR soon to b 8sec does not run an intercooler as it is fueled by methanol, which is basically a cooler burning fuel.

Also there are shitloads of other cars example, numerous rotars, that also run with no intercooler and are doin 7-8sec runs.

Reason being, extra lag caused by running an intercooler is detremental to the cars time on the 1/4. Therefore on REAL drag cars, they over come this by using a cooler fuel like methanol. The car will not need an intercooler as inlet temperatures wont get too high over a very short period, ie a fast 1/4 mile run.

So i really think u should actually know wat u are talkin about b4 u go spreading bs.

[browny]

But are exotic fuels like methanol really relevent to this discussion....

My opinion is that truck coolers dont really add up from a value for money perspective once you add in all the labour involved with making decent end tanks and fitting it into the car.

[DoughBoy]

Although this is getting off the topic a fair bit..

EnricoPalazzo, I think you may have misread my post. But having posted such an informative and sweeping statement, could you please enlighten my misguided soul and direct me to real life examples of front running turbocharged drag racing cars that do not use an intercooler?

Citing Mr. Munro's yet-to-be-run car doesn't qualify as one, but the MSRP Supra, any Pro 5.0 Mustang (really, these cars are the pinacle of turbo drag car development), any Japanese or world-wide Skyline vehicles, or even the Australian rotaries would count. Oh hang on, I can't see one that isn't using an intercooler. I think that maybe my reference material is outdated?

Please show me some proof so I can apologize for spreading "bs" as you put it.

[0HR-30T]

.

And OHR-30T a 400 hp truck core isn't ging to flow 400 hp once you cut it down becauses power, whether it's form a 2L or a 10L engine is based primarily on airflow (and efficiency) and once you remove half the cores it's only a 200hp core simple as that. 400 hp requires 400 hp worth of air, you may find theres a 20% difference in engine efficiency between the two engines so the half cut down core may actually be able to make about 220hp on a 2L. Still not great.

I beg to differ

Let's say a 2L engine needs to swallow 20L of air a minute at x boost to pressuries its 2L capacity,and produce 400hp. Now,if an engine 5times that capacity needs its capacity filled,wouldn't you imagine it'd need much more volume of air?(5 times?) And yes I realise truck and car engines have different requirments,but a big capacity engine needs to swallow a lot of air.And,as you say,air flow is air flow,so the air flow through a cooler should be rated in actual flow,not in HPs worth.

[Steve]

Show me a drag car without an intercooler and i'll show you someone running at the back of the pack on a very tight budget (and probably having a frustrating, but good, time).

From http://www.mazsport.com/rresults.html

One of the quickest RCE cars in Oz is Grant Williams' Series IV RX-7 (first half second generation) with full tube frame. He runs a 13B single turbo, no intercooler, 55 mm Weber, and 25 HP nitrous kit. His times are 8.76 at 154 mph.

could you please enlighten my misguided soul and direct me to real life examples of front running turbocharged drag racing cars that do not use an intercooler?

Citing Mr. Munro's yet-to-be-run car doesn't qualify as one, but the MSRP Supra, any Pro 5.0 Mustang (really, these cars are the pinacle of turbo drag car development), any Japanese or world-wide Skyline vehicles, or even the Australian rotaries would count. Oh hang on, I can't see one that isn't using an intercooler. I think that maybe my reference material is outdated?

Please show me some proof so I can apologize for spreading "bs" as you put it.

two birds, one stone.

[T0nyGTSt]

Yeah but you're forgeting that drag cars don't suffer from heat soak.

How can they over that 10 seconds?

Moot really. With Chinese Hybrid coolers going for less than $500, why bother?

T.

[Steve]

agreed Tony

[redline2003]

the dalton rx7 that runs 8s doesnt use a coola at all, straight from the turbo to throttle body on methanol, as does australias fastest FWD 'delsol' which runs 9s, i know of many fast vls that run truck coolas but vls follow a trend that has no real benefit( running no bov thus causing lag,) its like a cult thing. ud find many drag cars r using water to air koolers these days as well although i think that would b for a fully worked drag car. me personally would go for a trust 600 by 300 by 75 koola imported straight from japan, havent heard any complaints bout them

[DoughBoy]

Redline2003 is right, Dalton's car is quicker than Grant William's and also uses no intercooler. But if you want to compare it to front running vehicles....

In RR/SK people are doing high 7's. In outright rotary the cars are doing low 7's. 8's aren't cutting it. That time you quoted is nearly 1 full second off the pace.

[0HR-30T]

Remember to,that methanol negates the need for an intercooler at all,as it is so cool burning.

I guess it depends on how much money you have to spend on a cooler....For those lucky enough to be able to shell out $1000+ for high quality Japanese kits,the choice is easy.For those of us on much lower budgets,sometimes we need to look at much cheaper alternitives(ie truck cores),but still hope for good results.

[Steve]

ah, I see, so a car doing 8s is running at the back of the pack... my bad, I thought that was quick.

[Warpspeed]

8 seconds might be quick and it might not, it depends in what class you are in, and what everyone else runs. It is all relative................

If you turned up in an 8 second AA fueler you would be laughed off the strip.

Comparing a street driven car running on unleaded petrol to a methanol, nitromethane, or nitrous powered track freak is not a fair comparison either.

AA fuelers do not run intercoolers either, and they are the fastest accelerating cars of all, so what.

Back to reality. If you drive a petrol powered road car, and it has forced induction, an intercooler is absolutely a must have.