Which Has More Potential In The Long Run?

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

the qualifying lap record for the v8's is a low 2:06 or was it a very high 2:05? i can't remember, either way lowndes set it last year in practice, but previously before that it was greg murphy from back in about 2006.

see my first reply. but 4 seconds is a hell of a long time once you start getting to the pointy end of performance.

It was a quick google/wiki that came up with the 2.08, wither way, i give no fuck for supertaxis, and 4 seconds is fark all considering how agricultural group a was compared with todays race teams operate. If they werent banned I reckon they would have got it down to the 2min mark.

[mad082]

if v8 supercars rules were relaxed they could be under the 2 minute mark as well.

also it wasn't that the GTR's were banned, they simply ditched group A racing, just like the rest of the world did around that time (including japan). it's funny how people just assume that it was the bogans sick of seeing v8's lose that banned the GTR, but group a was already dying. it had been canned in the BTCC in 1990 and japan and germany both followed suit shortly after australia. so even in countries where the GTR never raced it was banned. you'd have to be a serious tinfoil hat wearer to think that the success of the GTR had something to do with that.

[Kinkstaah]

So, to sum up the entire thread in a TLDR version:

1) If you never, ever, ever lose grip, or have to compromise your handling setup to obtain grip, RWD is great, and better due to it being lighter.

2) in the real world, with real power, in real cars 1) Never Occurs (or at least doesn't for 99.9%) of the time.

Does that about sum it up?

[Birds]

if v8 supercars rules were relaxed they could be under the 2 minute mark as well.

also it wasn't that the GTR's were banned, they simply ditched group A racing, just like the rest of the world did around that time (including japan). it's funny how people just assume that it was the bogans sick of seeing v8's lose that banned the GTR, but group a was already dying. it had been canned in the BTCC in 1990 and japan and germany both followed suit shortly after australia. so even in countries where the GTR never raced it was banned. you'd have to be a serious tinfoil hat wearer to think that the success of the GTR had something to do with that.

That and the fact the GTRs were a 750k a year exercise, minimum, versus 200k for the taxis. Engines had to be rebuilt for almost every race, whilst the sedan engines ran through consecutive races.

[djr81]

That and the fact the GTRs were a 750k a year exercise, minimum, versus 200k for the taxis. Engines had to be rebuilt for almost every race, whilst the sedan engines ran through consecutive races.

A few things.

The quoted cost of the GTR's was affected by two things:

1. Freddo Gibson talking it up.

2. Electronics being massively expensive in the early 90's.

The figure of $750k was never credible then, nor is it now.

The taxis are currently being reengineered to try & get their cost down to under $300k - this is the Car of the future they keep banging on about. They look like they will fail in this endeavour which is a worry because the reduced costs are one of the most important reasons for doing all the work.

RB26s did not require rebuilds for every race. Thing about it - with the boost & rev limits in place just about anyone could build a motor to survive those conditions. Nowadays with control cams, minimum component weights, maximum engine speeds, sequential gearboxes, much better ECU's etc etc the motors last longer. They dont perform anywhere near as well as the could, but they last longer.

[mad082]

A few things.

The quoted cost of the GTR's was affected by two things:

1. Freddo Gibson talking it up.

2. Electronics being massively expensive in the early 90's.

The figure of $750k was never credible then, nor is it now.

The taxis are currently being reengineered to try & get their cost down to under $300k - this is the Car of the future they keep banging on about. They look like they will fail in this endeavour which is a worry because the reduced costs are one of the most important reasons for doing all the work.

RB26s did not require rebuilds for every race. Thing about it - with the boost & rev limits in place just about anyone could build a motor to survive those conditions. Nowadays with control cams, minimum component weights, maximum engine speeds, sequential gearboxes, much better ECU's etc etc the motors last longer. They dont perform anywhere near as well as the could, but they last longer.

this. the engine regulations are more strict now than they were 10 years ago. as is happening in pretty much all race categories around the world, rules are being made more and more strict to try and make the racing more about the best driver (or team that is best able to dial the car in) rather than the team with the deepest pockets (like f1). everyone talks about the hey day of racing being back in the 90's with group A and the like, but from a spectator point of view it was as boring as batshit. "oh look the car that is vastly superior from the team with the biggest budget has won every race by a mile again. what a suprise......"

[gdawg]

Interesting hypothesis for a thread, and the responses are ammusing

I've been doing a fair bit of research recently when looking to buy a cheap car for a road registerred toy (weekend track days, hillclimb's or similar)

I came to a similar conclusion that with a budget of say 20-30K a RWD skyline or similar cheapie (silvia, supra, rx7, VT gen3) would be comparable with the change spent on a few mods to make it track ready and a few extra ponies. So far i have found many things associated with the GTR a bit pricey...

Comparing GTST upgrades to maintaining or heaven forbid - upgrading a GTR are chalk and cheese. I feel that with a competent driver and similar budgets (including inital outlay) a well sorted GTSt would certainly be competetive alongside the GTR

Despite this I still chose to buy an R32 GTR for 2 reasons, I have always wanted one since the group A days, and the prospect of retaining some resale value as they are more likely to become a modern classic. Upon reflection i probably should have started with something with no power or grip (like an excel or charade) to hone my track skills as the GTR certainly covers for my lack of skill pulling out of corners on full boost / throttle easily keeping up with others on the track, but as for corner entry and mid corner pace i will continue hold up the pack until i grow some balls or develop some skill

Anyway, thats my thoughts - good on ya for starting an interesting thread, too bad its become a database of poorly quoted, unrelated motorsport statistics, rather than what could have been a user friendly discussion beween realistic, likeminded enthusiests.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

Interesting hypothesis for a thread, and the responses are ammusing

I've been doing a fair bit of research recently when looking to buy a cheap car for a road registerred toy (weekend track days, hillclimb's or similar)

I came to a similar conclusion that with a budget of say 20-30K a RWD skyline or similar cheapie (silvia, supra, rx7, VT gen3) would be comparable with the change spent on a few mods to make it track ready and a few extra ponies. So far i have found many things associated with the GTR a bit pricey...

Comparing GTST upgrades to maintaining or heaven forbid - upgrading a GTR are chalk and cheese. I feel that with a competent driver and similar budgets (including inital outlay) a well sorted GTSt would certainly be competetive alongside the GTR

Despite this I still chose to buy an R32 GTR for 2 reasons, I have always wanted one since the group A days, and the prospect of retaining some resale value as they are more likely to become a modern classic. Upon reflection i probably should have started with something with no power or grip (like an excel or charade) to hone my track skills as the GTR certainly covers for my lack of skill pulling out of corners on full boost / throttle easily keeping up with others on the track, but as for corner entry and mid corner pace i will continue hold up the pack until i grow some balls or develop some skill

Anyway, thats my thoughts - good on ya for starting an interesting thread, too bad its become a database of poorly quoted, unrelated motorsport statistics, rather than what could have been a user friendly discussion beween realistic, likeminded enthusiests.

Be careful, it might bite your arse yet, it wont cover any lack of skill moreover it will expose it.

[Nee-san]

Interesting hypothesis for a thread, and the responses are ammusing

I've been doing a fair bit of research recently when looking to buy a cheap car for a road registerred toy (weekend track days, hillclimb's or similar)

I came to a similar conclusion that with a budget of say 20-30K a RWD skyline or similar cheapie (silvia, supra, rx7, VT gen3) would be comparable with the change spent on a few mods to make it track ready and a few extra ponies. So far i have found many things associated with the GTR a bit pricey...

Comparing GTST upgrades to maintaining or heaven forbid - upgrading a GTR are chalk and cheese. I feel that with a competent driver and similar budgets (including inital outlay) a well sorted GTSt would certainly be competetive alongside the GTR

Despite this I still chose to buy an R32 GTR for 2 reasons, I have always wanted one since the group A days, and the prospect of retaining some resale value as they are more likely to become a modern classic. Upon reflection i probably should have started with something with no power or grip (like an excel or charade) to hone my track skills as the GTR certainly covers for my lack of skill pulling out of corners on full boost / throttle easily keeping up with others on the track, but as for corner entry and mid corner pace i will continue hold up the pack until i grow some balls or develop some skill

Anyway, thats my thoughts - good on ya for starting an interesting thread, too bad its become a database of poorly quoted, unrelated motorsport statistics, rather than what could have been a user friendly discussion beween realistic, likeminded enthusiests.

The main reason is mate, is that you want to compete, and to compete you need a the fastest car out of your options, which is the GT-R by a long shot.

The GT-R never loses LOL jk.

Anyway, can this thread die ? please ?

what if we make a thread about racecar vehicle design, I would like that ALot !

[TurboDoseBro]

Hi just popping in to say that the so called 'prototype car' Redbull X1 is not even a real car and nowhere does it say it's AWD. That argument wasn't even valid lol. It's nothing but a few graphics on Gran Turismo 5.

I want to know why the GTS-T can't be faster than a Falcodore? It is every bit more advantageous. Looking at Group A lap records in Winton, the GTR is beaten by another Falcodore. Reference: http://www.wintonmot...id=17&Itemid=30

Infact none of which are lap record holders are AWD.

Edited May 25, 2011 by TyresBro

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

let it go

[djr81]

let it go

Gees dude, he was just starting to win.

What is it about now. GTST's vs V8 Supercars?

Or why there arent many 20+ year old lap records?

Or about how much cars cost. Or is a better driver faster than a useless one.

Or something?

Winning.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

i dont know what he's fkn on about now

the thread needs to die

[mad082]

Hi just popping in to say that the so called 'prototype car' Redbull X1 is not even a real car and nowhere does it say it's AWD. That argument wasn't even valid lol. It's nothing but a few graphics on Gran Turismo 5.

I want to know why the GTS-T can't be faster than a Falcodore? It is every bit more advantageous. Looking at Group A lap records in Winton, the GTR is beaten by another Falcodore. Reference: http://www.wintonmot...id=17&Itemid=30

Infact none of which are lap record holders are AWD.

if you read what i said again, i'm pretty sure i refered to it as a theorhetical prototype. it was still properly engineered by the redbull engineers using the same software they design the f1 cars on, so the figures/performance would be pretty much spot on.

as for why a v8 supercar is faster than a group A skyline, well if you pulled your head out of your arse and read any of my posts you would have figured that out. you can't compare a group A car to a v8 supercar. the rules that they have to built by are completely different, regardless of when the record was set. you might as well wonder why a 2L v8 (or whatever the current f1 cars are) which cost a few million dollars to build is faster than a 5L v8, v8 supercar that costs a lot less.

if you look at lap records from eastern creek raceway you will see that a lambo gallardo has a lap record of nearly 10 seconds faster than a GTR and it is much less modified than a group A GTR. you will also see that a supertourer spec 2L, rwd bmw is about as fast as the lambo.

[Nee-san]

post laptime of said Gallardo ?

[TurboDoseBro]

if you read what i said again, i'm pretty sure i refered to it as a theorhetical prototype. it was still properly engineered by the redbull engineers using the same software they design the f1 cars on, so the figures/performance would be pretty much spot on.

as for why a v8 supercar is faster than a group A skyline, well if you pulled your head out of your arse and read any of my posts you would have figured that out. you can't compare a group A car to a v8 supercar. the rules that they have to built by are completely different, regardless of when the record was set. you might as well wonder why a 2L v8 (or whatever the current f1 cars are) which cost a few million dollars to build is faster than a 5L v8, v8 supercar that costs a lot less.

if you look at lap records from eastern creek raceway you will see that a lambo gallardo has a lap record of nearly 10 seconds faster than a GTR and it is much less modified than a group A GTR. you will also see that a supertourer spec 2L, rwd bmw is about as fast as the lambo.

LOL If you pulled your head out of your ass when reading that post you would know that I was talking specifically on Group A racing not this Group A vs V8 Supercar crap again. Yes God knows, you may have mentioned the X1 was theoretical but Nurburgring in 3 minutes? Come on mate wake up... The F1 lap record was somewhere in the 5 minute range. The X1 with only a few extra horses and maybe a few kilograms lighter will not shave off 2 minutes. It's nothing more than just a game and always will be.

Regarding the lap times, a quick Google image search shows that the Gallardo is hardly less modified than a Group A GTR (http://www.velocetod...0/03/clip-1.jpg). In saying that, again this car's layout is a lot different to an FR or F4. Even then, the regulations probably require the car to be RWD. You really can't find a AWD car that's run in the low 1:3Xs mark in Eastern Creek Raceway. In regards to the Super Touring, again different class as you have mentioned time and time again. Note that the RWD times are set 10 years before.

Easter Creek Raceway lap times stated:

GT Sports Cars Peter Hackett Lamborghini Gallardo 1.32.8616 30/05/10

Group A Terry Ashwood Nissan Skyline GT-R 1.41.8511 04/09/10

V8 Supercars Mark Skaife Commodore VT 1:31.7301 28/03/99

Super Touring Cameron McLean BMW 320i 1:33.8642 07/06/98

Edited May 26, 2011 by TyresBro

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

You use the computers at the school library dont you.

[mad082]

LOL If you pulled your head out of your ass when reading that post you would know that I was talking specifically on Group A racing not this Group A vs V8 Supercar crap again. Yes God knows, you may have mentioned the X1 was theoretical but Nurburgring in 3 minutes? Come on mate wake up... The F1 lap record was somewhere in the 5 minute range. The X1 with only a few extra horses and maybe a few kilograms lighter will not shave off 2 minutes. It's nothing more than just a game and always will be.

Regarding the lap times, a quick Google image search shows that the Gallardo is hardly less modified than a Group A GTR (http://www.velocetod...0/03/clip-1.jpg). In saying that, again this car's layout is a lot different to an FR or F4. Even then, the regulations probably require the car to be RWD. You really can't find a AWD car that's run in the low 1:3Xs mark in Eastern Creek Raceway. In regards to the Super Touring, again different class as you have mentioned time and time again. Note that the RWD times are set 10 years before.

Easter Creek Raceway lap times stated:

GT Sports Cars Peter Hackett Lamborghini Gallardo 1.32.8616 30/05/10

Group A Terry Ashwood Nissan Skyline GT-R 1.41.8511 04/09/10

V8 Supercars Mark Skaife Commodore VT 1:31.7301 28/03/99

Super Touring Cameron McLean BMW 320i 1:33.8642 07/06/98

well for starters, with the x1, it has about twice the power of a f1 car (not "a few extra horsies"), and it has a buttload more downforce as well as less drag. as for lap times, a F1 car has never done a timed lap of the section of track used for road cars. they have only done a full lap which is 4km longer, but it is estimated the f1 car could do it in just over 5 mins. a car like the x1 wouldn't do quite as fast lap times in real life as in a game, but it would certainly smash the F1 time.

and as for the comment about the supertourer and v8 supercar lap records being old, i have said many times that the current v8 supercars are no faster than the old ones as engine the regulations of the old ones meant they had more power. the GTR time could be set tomorrow, but if the GTR is still built to group A regulations then it isn't going to be drastically different to the times set back in the early 90's because it is still based off the 20 year old regulations. a GTR built to a different set of regulations would be able to post a faster time.

as for AWD cars running faster times, you will find that there are road registered r35 GTRs able to post faster times than a group A r32 gtr. and to give a few examples of AWD times in the low 1:3x's, how about the fastest car at time attack 2010 at eastern creek. it was an evo that ran a 1:30.587. the next 2 cars were also AWD (an evo and a wrx) with 4th place being the fastest rwd, about 1.7 seconds back. every category was won by AWD cars. second place in every category was also AWD.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

dont feed the troll kid Marco.

[mad082]

but i'm bored.....