P Plate Legal Tow Car.

[KezR33]

Hey guys,

I'm seriously considering ditching the Supra and buying a track dedicated car. I hate the attention, the cost, the impracticality and recently I've been driving a newer more standard car and the ease and comfort of it is a nice change. If I sold the Supra I'd have about $10,000 to play with, but obviously the less I spend on a daily the better because I'll have more to put towards the track car (most likely a Silvia).

I've got less than a year left on my P's, and I'm 90% certain P platers (can anyone confirm this, in VIC btw) can't tow other cars however this gives me more time to save, and if I did find a track car before I get off my P's I'd probably find a friend to drive for me.

Moving on, are there any reliable, comfortable P plate legal cars out there for under $10,000 capable of towing a 1100kg+ car? Obviously 6cylinder Falcons and Commodores come to mind, but I really don't know much about them. Any other cars I could consider? Am I better waiting and just going for a V8?

Cheers.

[luvpsi]

are you aloud to drive 4wd if i was you i would buy a 4wd pref diesel

[ARTZ]

[GTScotT]

With a budget of 10 grand I would say you could pick up an ex track only civic or similar and a reasonable condition commodore.

Commons are more reliable than their ford counterpart IMO and getting an ecotec fitted moddel will mean you could buy a water pump off a 1930s model buick if you needed to.

My neighbors are skip and seem to only own commodores, one after the other, they definitely seem to have a good run with them. Most other cars will cost a packet on their own whereas you can get a common for a couple of grand.

For the record I watched a pair of office job asian dudes with EK civics running 1.07s around wakefield on the same day I saw a dedicated track GTR competing at 1.06s. On inspection one of the civics ran a near factory drop in B18C from a DC2R and the other ran a mild B16 crate motor.

I recently picked up an EG with a mate for 1500, last one I worked one we fitted with DC2R suspension for no more than a grand (new bushes, DC2R sways, used DC2R shocks/springs), B18C conversion costed about 7. You could buy one done for less, a B16 converted example would do the job.

GL

[KezR33]

Reckon a diesel 4WD would be cheaper to run (this will be my daily remember) than a Commodore?

As for the Civic, I'll consider it, but I really want a turbo RWD car. I've never owned a turbo car, but have always wanted one, and I like to go sideways.

[StealthX]

An x-trail in good condition from 2001-2003 would set ya back about 10k these days, rated to 2000kgs and tows well. Comfy, cheap as chips on fuel and very practical. My car makes double factory power for about 50,000kms and not one part of the driveline is complaining (touch wood).

Prepared for flames.

[luvpsi]

Reckon a diesel 4WD would be cheaper to run (this will be my daily remember) than a Commodore?

As for the Civic, I'll consider it, but I really want a turbo RWD car. I've never owned a turbo car, but have always wanted one, and I like to go sideways.

not just that but you can also go offroad if you ever want to i had a 4wd and wish i never sold it had some of the best times of my life in that. but it had to go due to the mrs wanting to move house

[No Crust Racing]

Kez, as you know from seeing me at a few events I do exactly what you're talking about. Drive a nice comfy car daily and have an S13 for DECA/Track.

When doing my research I opted to go originally with a BA Fairmont for 8k on road. It was a 2003 model car (equivalent to a VY Berlina in age and spec) and had all the nice luxo features.

The BA was about 2-3k cheaper than VYs, has a higher towing capacity and the engine develops more power and more torque whilst using the same if not less fuel. As a daily I was averaging around 9L per hundred k's on my daily commute, to be fair 10k of my 22k trip each way is on the highway and I'm very cautious on the throttle.

Only thing I added was a PWR trans cooler to avoid any potential issues with coolant contaminating the trans fluid (a common BA issue on high K examples) and that also allowed me to tow comfortably at 110 in 4th, saving lots of fuel. (Ford handbook for BAs says to tow in 3rd)

Fuel economy is not stellar when towing, you might do better with a turbo diesel when towing. The comfort and fuel econ when not towing which is 99% of the time far outweighed this. We're talking 400ks to a full tank when towing and around 500-550 normally.

I've since moved on to a BF MKII which has the ZF 6 speed in it and am now seeing fuel econ of around 8.6L but I'm yet to tow with it so can't say much to what it uses when towing. Beyond that the transcooler/radiator issue from the BAs was partially addressed in that the BF runs a separate heat exchanger on the side of the block for the trans rather than having the cooler built into the radiator like the BA.

Again this came down to the fact that for 12k on the road I got a very well spec'd 2007 model car. To buy a similar spec Commodore, which would have been a VE, I'd have paid 3-4k more at least and ended up with a car that has less power and torque and worse fuel economy. The BF has a slightly larger tank and I'm averaging around 620-660ks on a tank, and by tank I mean when it beeps at me, usually around 54L goes in after 3 clicks on the nozzle. On dedicated highway runs between here and melbourne it averages in the mid 7s.

From a purely financial point of view, the Falcon is easily the better choice. If you compare two of the same spec and year model cars from ford and holden the ford will almost definitely be cheaper (provided k's are similar) and will have more power and more torque with equal to better fuel economy.

There's a reason that the bulk of Taxis are Fords.

I'm no Ford fan either, first car was a Commodore and I've always been a "Holden" man, but the Ford is a much better fit for this purpose (For me) and is far more economical all round. To be fair, I think the Commodores are much better handling cars when driving spiritedly but the Ford is a nicer highway cruise. If you are doing a lot of stop start driving you might find the Ford actually has worse econ than a Commo because the Falcon is heavier for almost every model back to 98.

I can also chew your ear off about what to do Silvia wise. We can talk at DECA

Cheers

Edited May 11, 2011 by ActionDan

[PIG747]

a couple of years ago my mate bout a 90's model pajero for a few grand and it had no drama's towing a race car, wheels, tools, and 4 people. It was a diesel model

[KezR33]

Kez, as you know from seeing me at a few events I do exactly what you're talking about. Drive a nice comfy car daily and have an S13 for DECA/Track.

When doing my research I opted to go originally with a BA Fairmont for 8k on road. It was a 2003 model car (equivalent to a VY Berlina in age and spec) and had all the nice luxo features.

The BA was about 2-3k cheaper than VYs, has a higher towing capacity and the engine develops more power and more torque whilst using the same if not less fuel. As a daily I was averaging around 9L per hundred k's on my daily commute, to be fair 10k of my 22k trip each way is on the highway and I'm very cautious on the throttle.

Only thing I added was a PWR trans cooler to avoid any potential issues with coolant contaminating the trans fluid (a common BA issue on high K examples) and that also allowed me to tow comfortably at 110 in 4th, saving lots of fuel. (Ford handbook for BAs says to tow in 3rd)

Fuel economy is not stellar when towing, you might do better with a turbo diesel when towing. The comfort and fuel econ when not towing which is 99% of the time far outweighed this. We're talking 400ks to a full tank when towing and around 500-550 normally.

I've since moved on to a BF MKII which has the ZF 6 speed in it and am now seeing fuel econ of around 8.6L but I'm yet to tow with it so can't say much to what it uses when towing. Beyond that the transcooler/radiator issue from the BAs was partially addressed in that the BF runs a separate heat exchanger on the side of the block for the trans rather than having the cooler built into the radiator like the BA.

Again this came down to the fact that for 12k on the road I got a very well spec'd 2007 model car. To buy a similar spec Commodore, which would have been a VE, I'd have paid 3-4k more at least and ended up with a car that has less power and torque and worse fuel economy. The BF has a slightly larger tank and I'm averaging around 620-660ks on a tank, and by tank I mean when it beeps at me, usually around 54L goes in after 3 clicks on the nozzle. On dedicated highway runs between here and melbourne it averages in the mid 7s.

From a purely financial point of view, the Falcon is easily the better choice. If you compare two of the same spec and year model cars from ford and holden the ford will almost definitely be cheaper (provided k's are similar) and will have more power and more torque with equal to better fuel economy.

There's a reason that the bulk of Taxis are Fords.

I'm no Ford fan either, first car was a Commodore and I've always been a "Holden" man, but the Ford is a much better fit for this purpose (For me) and is far more economical all round. To be fair, I think the Commodores are much better handling cars when driving spiritedly but the Ford is a nicer highway cruise. If you are doing a lot of stop start driving you might find the Ford actually has worse econ than a Commo because the Falcon is heavier for almost every model back to 98.

I can also chew your ear off about what to do Silvia wise. We can talk at DECA

Cheers

Whoa thanks for all the info. I'm definitely leaning towards the Falcodore route anyway over the big 4WD simply because I'd prefer a sedan. A 4WD would just be a hassle to park and I can't imagine maintenance being anywhere near as cheap as a Falcodore. I'll definitely check out the BA's, and I'll definitely pick your brain about Silvia's at DECA

[ARTZ]

yeah for diesel id say lean towards the newer gen utes not so much 4wd as maintenance can be costly..but the new gen utes arent exactly cheap yet so a Falcon is probably ideal..

As for saying a 4wd will be too hard to park.. maybe it would be easier if you take your blouse off..

[KezR33]

lol fair call. I guess my biggest issue is on the Mornington Peninsula every mum and her mum drives a 4wd. I've always given them shit for buying a 4wd and never using it for what it was designed to do. Be a bit of hypocrite if I bought one as a daily and never went off road.

[mad082]

definately go for a falcon or commodore. there are many plus sides over a diesel with only 1 or 2 negatives. for your money you will get a better car (i bought a vt wagon a few months back for $3550), they are cheaper to fix (and plenty of them at wreckers to get cheap parts for) and pretty much any car parts place will have most of the parts you might need in stock, tyres are cheaper than 4wd tyres, usually cheaper to run, except when towing, but unless you are towing every week it won't be an issue.

[Birds]

80 series Cruiser with a 1HZ (4.2 diesel). Will tow a light car very well. Will go and go and go, plus they hold thei value well as they have depreciated as much as they are going to.

If you're going the sedan route, Commodore or Falcon on gas. Will cost like a 4 cylinder to run daily and you can petrol it up when you need to tow.

[10 4]

Get a falcodore.

Cost nothing to run, use 91ron and all parts are incredibly cheap / anyone can service them etc.

[No Crust Racing]

Something to add Kez, I see on FB that you're considering an XR6. Of all the NA Falcons I've test driven, the XR6s are by far the most thrashed.

You're better off with a Futura or a Fairmont, granted neither look as good and you wont get the pretty LCD screen but the chances of the car being flogged are reduced. As always a test drive and good inspection will tell the story but in my testing I've found that the majority of XR6s already had gearboxes that felt and sounded like Taxi's with much higher Ks.

I'm biased because I boughta Fairmont but after test driving a number of others, Fairmonts tended to have been better looked after and come with a lot of features.

If the budget stretches that far you can also look at BFs with ZF 6spds. Even the XTs are pretty well appointed and there's a few good XT based special models like the ES which is what I have and was a run out model that was based on an XT but gets the nicer Euro front end, 17" polished alloys, the 6spd, Fairmont interior, reversing sensors (oddly no rear power windows lol), and XR suspension. It's equivalent to an SV-Z in the Commo's where they basically see what they have lying around the factory to spruce up some cars before a model change (ES was only available as a BF MK II). You can get those around the 10K mark now, and that's a lot of car for the money.

[KezR33]

Something to add Kez, I see on FB that you're considering an XR6. Of all the NA Falcons I've test driven, the XR6s are by far the most thrashed.

You're better off with a Futura or a Fairmont, granted neither look as good and you wont get the pretty LCD screen but the chances of the car being flogged are reduced. As always a test drive and good inspection will tell the story but in my testing I've found that the majority of XR6s already had gearboxes that felt and sounded like Taxi's with much higher Ks.

I'm biased because I boughta Fairmont but after test driving a number of others, Fairmonts tended to have been better looked after and come with a lot of features.

If the budget stretches that far you can also look at BFs with ZF 6spds. Even the XTs are pretty well appointed and there's a few good XT based special models like the ES which is what I have and was a run out model that was based on an XT but gets the nicer Euro front end, 17" polished alloys, the 6spd, Fairmont interior, reversing sensors (oddly no rear power windows lol), and XR suspension. It's equivalent to an SV-Z in the Commo's where they basically see what they have lying around the factory to spruce up some cars before a model change (ES was only available as a BF MK II). You can get those around the 10K mark now, and that's a lot of car for the money.

I only said XR6 because I know absolutely nothing about Fords. I thought all 6 cylinder Fords were XR6s (at least the later model once). I just want something comfortable and reliable. I will definitely look around, just have to sell my car first. Wouldn't be interested in an NA Supra would you? Maybe a swap for your BA, Silvia and trailer? Bargain on your part really, being a Supra and all. Do I have to show you how vastly superior they are to the Silvia again....

[No Crust Racing]

lol nah there's a few different NA 6 cylinder Falcons to choose from.

I don't have the BA anymore, got BF MK II now but even still I'll have to pass on that "generous" offer

[gregor]

I've towed an FC rx7 with my BF xr6 turbo once, and ill be doing it again soon. Did it easily and felt solid on the road, very happy with it. The NA should be just as capable i wasnt giving it much so the extra power and torque would have been minimal.

[mad082]

the turbo will tow much better than the NA, considering that it has about 50% more torque than the NA (has similar torque to an XR8). the difference would be noticable.