Rb30E A/m Ecu / Tune Experience

[Cheddle]

Have an rb30e

has extractors, 2.5 in zorst, pod.

Has any.one here ever used a nistune or similar on a relativly stock rb30? Seeing as its a rather soft tune on 91 octane im woundering if a more agressive tune and 98 octane fuel would net noticible gains? Im thinking 10-15kw could be had from a beter tune without changing the cam

and before u post about twin cam conversions and turbos being the more economic choice i would like to alert you to the fact.that im not ignorant or retarded... I want throttle response to be perfect so im not boosting it. Twin cam conversion might be an option however it may be excesive.

[StealthX]

P plater?

Bro, yo're never gonna get amazing power with an RB30E. If you choose the right turbo and it's tuned correctly, throttle response won't be an issue.

Spending money on an RB30E, with no turbo or DOHC head, is like running in the paralympics, even if you win, it's still retarded.

FWIW, you'd gain a little with a proper tune, but simply bolting on a twim cam head will not only give you more power, a larger power band and a higher rev limit, but you'll have more potential too.

[Cheddle]

Mmm no not a p plater... Ive owned a few 200 rwkw+ cars in my time...

Throttle responce is always an issue with a turbo. Always.

Im chasing a wide and flat power curve with high torque. Not some high kw figure or amazing narrow power band. Hence why im considering options besides a cam change.

Ive driven a car with a 30de and another with 30det in fact my car used to have the 30det in it... The 30de felt great if a little peaky but the owner really has had soo mnay issues with it.... Im reluctant to go down the same path.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Cheddle

[mad082]

i know the vl ecu's can be chipped like other holden ecu's. don't know if the r31 ecu's are the same. with a good tune i'd expect to see maybe a 10kw gain without cams.

[Cheddle]

yeah the r31 ecus are easily "chipped"

Nistune offer a daughterboard upgrade for the ecu to alow on the fly tuning and connectivity with a laptop. im most likely going down that path as a local tuner has experience both installing and tuning Nistune

ive been thinking about the 30de option and its becoming more attractive.. i might buy another engine and build it up, but for now im still hungry for some more poke

skitzr31's high-compression rb30de made 150 rwkw running on a stock rb25det ecu with no tuning... iirc

wouldnt mind doing that...

[zoidbergmerc]

Tim has a spare RB25head he's looking to get rid of. It needs some love but I'm sure it's nothing out side of your expertise.

[SKiT_R31]

As odd as it may sound, results the R31 boys have found is that a 'chip' from dark half for example actually loses a bit of top end power (so your kW number) but give a bit more beans down low and mid. Results which were also proven by a mate of mine who had a 110kW RB30 (fresh rebuild) with just the 20 degree's ign mod (+gts headers/exhaust & enclosed pod), dark half chipped it and he got 105, then 65mm TB'd it and still got 108. Overlaying the graphs, even allowing for Dyno fluctuation it was pretty clear that the dark half had great mid range but power dropped off earlier, and the fuel mixtures weren’t really any better than standard (which is to be expected from a mail order tune, just for safety). He gave up and threw a KKR480 + eBay manifold on it and a microtech lt8 tuned by PA, makes like 170kW on 8psi with 12.5:1 AFR, reliable, economical and safe as pie (quite underpowered imo but still pretty quick with its 4.11's and it was early days with tuner too scared to run high boost on unopened N/A + T even though it drove in on 12psi/165kW with limp-home-tune).

If you nistuned it yourself you'd net a bit more power and way better economy as you could lean the mixtures more ideally to suit N/A application (like ~ 13.2 at low throttle/airflow & ~ 12.5:1 at WOT) since RB30's rely heavily on thier airflow table at light throttle rather than 02 sensor like the twin cams, this is where the difference in economy generally comes from.

Nistuning it is also future proofing for turbo, you can just plug it into a laptop and change AFM/injectors with the click of a button, even more appropriate cam maps (like for GTS2 spec).

I honestly wouldn’t bother twin camming, a good tune will negate most benefits, a mild cam will pick the revs up and a turbo will bring on the power. Nistune $500, Cam $200 (and 2 hours tops) then down the track, factory vlt injectors, vlt manifold, vlt turbo and front pipe, rb25 bottom dump (will bolt straight up to front pipe and to your exhaust) and bam, ~ 165kW on 10-12psi like every other RB30e+t and cheap as chips. Tune will push it up to ~ 180-200 where you might hit airflow meter limit which is easily fixed by Z32 as they use the same plug!

/wall of text yarn

[Cheddle]

cheers for the advice dan.

i reckon il laim for a nistune first up, get it tuned. then later on boost it with some stock vlt gear.

ive heard that changing the cam requires that the lifter be changed/replaced as well? is this true?

[zoidbergmerc]

I got a dark half in the VL and it was pretty good.

[Cheddle]

Nistune came back to me and suggested minimal economy gains and around 10 kw gains based on past experience.

[SKiT_R31]

I did the cam in my old RB30et wagon and just gave the lifters a clean, never had any lifter noise or issues, but i hear its recommended.

While the car is N/A you could give it a home tune and sneak a few extra ponies, low risk and better economy. With a supported wideband O2 you could get it to tune its self to some decent WOT mixtures...

[Cheddle]

hmmm my lifters are currently a little noisy, particularly on start-up...

Does the nistune support automatic wide-band tuning????? :-/

[zoidbergmerc]

Nistune came back to me and suggested minimal economy gains and around 10 kw gains based on past experience.

10kw more is a lot when you're only starting at 90kw.

[Cheddle]

10kw more is a lot when you're only starting at 90kw.

my thoughts exactly, its a good 10% increase...

and at around $100/kw gained its "cheap" for n/a tuning gains.

especially considering it gives me overhead for turbo tuning later.

[Birds]

It's still buggerall when you're starting at 1300kg.

Small displacement engine, super quick throttle response, or lots of torque - pick two of these, because you wont get all three...not without spending copious amounts of money anyway.

[bmgjet]

Im doing the same project for my brothers first car.

Just finished fixing the gearbox and its all up and running with pod and extracters.

He is only on his restricted so im keeping it NA for the moment but once he gets his full ill be +t'ing it for him.

Nistune was a bit expensive and I already own a licence for CROME (honda tuning program) so I wrote a script to read/write the RB30E and T maps. It also works in the free version of CROME and supports SR20DET and RB20DET so far, Planing to add more in future as I come across more ECUs.

Password to extract is "bmgjet.com"

Feel free to try it out, It doesnt do as much as nistune but its a work in progress still and iv had some success with it so far.

Its only making 115KW but the engine is a bit tired 190,000K, Was hoping for 120kwish but the SOHC must flow worse then I thought.

I was a bit disapointed since my old 1.6L NA made 125KW and my 1.2L on 21psi makes 147kw.

Crome Nissan Support Plugin0.01e.zip

[SKiT_R31]

no, sort of came out wrong, I mean with datalogging and real time cell selection with wideband output.

read this guy;

http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/files/nissan_ecu_tuning_basics.pdf

There is heaps of info here;

http://www.nistune.com/support-documentation-general.php

Some good reads .

[bmgjet]

no, sort of came out wrong, I mean with datalogging and real time cell selection with wideband output.

read this guy;

http://www.plmsdevel...ning_basics.pdf

There is heaps of info here;

http://www.nistune.c...ion-general.php

Some good reads .

Those links are a good read, Read them a while back.

For real time cell tracing and stuff Iv been using a ostrich. The dyno I use also has a full datalogging setup where it can take all the readings from the sensors its self once its plugged into the loom between the ecu.

[NISMØ]

I own a 31 with a rb30e... been down a similar path when I first got the car. Luckily enough, some locals from the 31 club talked some sense into me.

Bottom line is, for the money, is it worth it? No... do not do it.

The best you can do for your 30e without going turbo / opening up the motor is this:

extractors, 2.5" exhaust

+20 ignition timing and use premium fuel.

Leave the engine at that, it is seriously the biggest waste of time doing anything else, waste of not only time but money, it is simply not cost effective and you will be dissapointed.

Even opening up the engine and working the n/a 30e is a waste of time that yields nothing special.

Exhaust + premium + ignition advance is the best thing you can do for your car, and yes, it does have noticable gains, more noticable then any ECU / chip will show you.

[Cheddle]

I own a 31 with a rb30e... been down a similar path when I first got the car. Luckily enough, some locals from the 31 club talked some sense into me.

Bottom line is, for the money, is it worth it? No... do not do it.

The best you can do for your 30e without going turbo / opening up the motor is this:

extractors, 2.5" exhaust

+20 ignition timing and use premium fuel.

Leave the engine at that, it is seriously the biggest waste of time doing anything else, waste of not only time but money, it is simply not cost effective and you will be dissapointed.

Even opening up the engine and working the n/a 30e is a waste of time that yields nothing special.

Exhaust + premium + ignition advance is the best thing you can do for your car, and yes, it does have noticable gains, more noticable then any ECU / chip will show you.

i belive this really all depends on your expectations...

if you modify an rb30e and expect it to perform like an M3 then prepare to be disapointed.

if you modify an rb30e and expect it to perform like a commodore preapre to be pleased. ^.^