Intercooler Pressure Drop Test

[Hanaldo]

Hey all,

I am going to do a pressure drop test on my intercooler using a manometer to test if it is a restriction; I just wanted to double check where I should tee into? I figured on the cold side of the cooler I can tee into anywhere near the manifold (Bov line ok??), but I'm a bit unsure as to where I should tee into on the turbo side?

Thanks in advance

Martin.

[Thelen]

Tee in anywhere really, but make it the last item before the main IC body.

[XRATED]

If you want to test the intercooler, tap 1/8th" threads into each end tank for threaded nipples. If you want to test the whole intercooler instalation, tap the threads into immediately post turbo and immediately pre tb for the nipples.

Once your done, just locktite some 1/8th" plugs into the threaded holes (or weld them up).

J.

[Hanaldo]

If you want to test the intercooler, tap 1/8th" threads into each end tank for threaded nipples. If you want to test the whole intercooler instalation, tap the threads into immediately post turbo and immediately pre tb for the nipples.

Once your done, just locktite some 1/8th" plugs into the threaded holes (or weld them up).

J.

Wayyy too involved

[GeorgesR34]

Pressure test one end pre the cooler and do the same after the throttle body, drive on road or dyno to see if there are any pressure differences. If its showning 20psi+ pre cooler and only 15psi after cooler then the pressure drop would be 5psi, which is alot.

[Hanaldo]

Pressure test one end pre the cooler and do the same after the throttle body, drive on road or dyno to see if there are any pressure differences. If its showning 20psi+ pre cooler and only 15psi after cooler then the pressure drop would be 5psi, which is alot.

Yes I know how to do the test, I just don't know where to tee into to get the most accurate results. Xrated's suggestion would be the best, but I don't want to drill into my cooler...

[Hanaldo]

Ok just had a look. What if I tee into the line going to my boost controller solenoid (on custom cooler piping, straight after turbo) and then tee the other line into the little hose connected to the stock crossover pipe (next to the bov, can't remember what it does)? That would be fairly accurate yes??

[chocco]

If you want to test the intercooler, tap 1/8th" threads into each end tank for threaded nipples. If you want to test the whole intercooler instalation, tap the threads into immediately post turbo and immediately pre tb for the nipples.

Once your done, just locktite some 1/8th" plugs into the threaded holes (or weld them up).

J.

+1

Wats the point of this anyways?

How are you goin to be testing it with in regards to having your measurements done?

Or is this more of a "Im bored" situation?

[Hanaldo]

+1

Wats the point of this anyways?

How are you goin to be testing it with in regards to having your measurements done?

Or is this more of a "Im bored" situation?

I'm using a manometer. Not the prettiest of things, but they are accurate and will do the job.

Reason is a bit long winded which is why I didn't go into it in the first post. I have an issue with my car being 'underpowered' and having a very lazy power curve. Using a Hypergear ATR43G2, my car is only making 295rwhp @16psi with full boost by 4500rpm and peak power is only at redline. When my tuner tries to run more boost, the engine knocks. All symptoms point to a restriction somewhere. First we thought it was my cat, so we dropped my exhaust but that didn't make a difference. Intake piping is a custom 3" stainless steel job with Apexi power intake and Z32 AFM, so no restriction there. Then we thought perhaps there was something wrong with the turbo itself, so Stao was very helpful and sent out a new ATR43 that he had tested on his own car to prove it could make the power. That didn't make a difference either.

I sent the old turbo back to Stao for diagnosis, and sure enough there was nothing wrong with it. He did say that the compressor wheel was a strange colour, which shows it has got very hot. Again it would appear there is a restriction. I have pulled everything apart looking for possible blockages but found nothing. The only other thing I can think of is the cooler is restrictive.

I might as well attach the dyno graphs I've had so far:

This is the first one from when I got everything installed and tuned:

This is the second one from when we tried dropping the exhaust:

And this is the latest one after we installed the new turbo:

[WYTSKY]

What intercooler is it?

secondly, because im at work Im not sure how the dynos are looking to others, but I cant make them bigger and can barely read the numbers.

[Hanaldo]

What intercooler is it?

secondly, because im at work Im not sure how the dynos are looking to others, but I cant make them bigger and can barely read the numbers.

AGP, 600x300x100.

Yeh sorry about the size, not sure how to make them bigger. They are pretty much all the same with slight changes in the shape. All peak at around 290rwhp. All hit full boost at 4500rpm (rather laggy for this turbo), and immediately start to flatten out. Making about 260rwhp at 4500, then by redline at 7250 only making 290rwhp. I was more posting them to demonstrate the shape and how it gets very lazy as soon as it hits full boost.

[Hanaldo]

Ok well I just did a test in 2nd and 3rd gear, need to do another one in 4th gear just to be sure. But I only got a pressure difference of 1.137psi. Which in the scheme of things is fark all.

So I am stumped yet again

[paulr33]

I'm using a manometer. Not the prettiest of things, but they are accurate and will do the job.

Reason is a bit long winded which is why I didn't go into it in the first post. I have an issue with my car being 'underpowered' and having a very lazy power curve. Using a Hypergear ATR43G2, my car is only making 295rwhp @16psi with full boost by 4500rpm and peak power is only at redline. When my tuner tries to run more boost, the engine knocks. All symptoms point to a restriction somewhere. First we thought it was my cat, so we dropped my exhaust but that didn't make a difference. Intake piping is a custom 3" stainless steel job with Apexi power intake and Z32 AFM, so no restriction there. Then we thought perhaps there was something wrong with the turbo itself, so Stao was very helpful and sent out a new ATR43 that he had tested on his own car to prove it could make the power. That didn't make a difference either.

I sent the old turbo back to Stao for diagnosis, and sure enough there was nothing wrong with it. He did say that the compressor wheel was a strange colour, which shows it has got very hot. Again it would appear there is a restriction. I have pulled everything apart looking for possible blockages but found nothing. The only other thing I can think of is the cooler is restrictive.

hang on what.......

what symptoms are you "getting" to give you that idea?

if you add more boost and it knocks its a simple case of

1) intake temp too high

2) timing is too advanced

3) poor fuel

4) poor compression

1-> intake temp too high can be yielded from inefficient compressor wheel or compressor out of efficiency, ie way past its island and way out of range, ie 27psi on the stock GTST turbo is wayyyyyyyy past its island and efficiency zone. the result is excessive intake temp, which yields excessive detonation or knocking

2-> you would not want to retard timing to add more boost so discount that as your likely cause, unless your map is MEGA advanced, or your cas is off set (check with timing light at idle).

3-> check the fuel, simple and easy and you never know. but i suspect this has "knocking" issue has come up all of a sudden, or since a big change; ie; new turbo

4-> poor compression, again unlikely to pop up instantly and takes time and age to reach poor compression

i would not expect a poor intercooler, that has a pressure drop to cause the symptom of "run more boost, the engine knocks"

[paulr33]

how did this car peform before the turbo change?

we've seen all kinds of whacky theories and debugging based around the hypergear turbochargers

its usually the owners trying to cram into 16 psi+ and get poor results or sluggish performance

i dont know whats going on, or why, and i dont really want to know, but we see lots of "my car has random issues" after hypergear hiflows go on

[Hanaldo]

hang on what.......

what symptoms are you "getting" to give you that idea?

if you add more boost and it knocks its a simple case of

1) intake temp too high

2) timing is too advanced

3) poor fuel

4) poor compression

1-> intake temp too high can be yielded from inefficient compressor wheel or compressor out of efficiency, ie way past its island and way out of range, ie 27psi on the stock GTST turbo is wayyyyyyyy past its island and efficiency zone. the result is excessive intake temp, which yields excessive detonation or knocking

2-> you would not want to retard timing to add more boost so discount that as your likely cause, unless your map is MEGA advanced, or your cas is off set (check with timing light at idle).

3-> check the fuel, simple and easy and you never know. but i suspect this has "knocking" issue has come up all of a sudden, or since a big change; ie; new turbo

4-> poor compression, again unlikely to pop up instantly and takes time and age to reach poor compression

i would not expect a poor intercooler, that has a pressure drop to cause the symptom of "run more boost, the engine knocks"

I have already listed most of the symptoms.

We have put engine knocking down to superheated intake air. Fuel is not an issue, nor is timing. But at 295rwhp, this turbo should not be out of efficiency. The intercooler made sense, if the turbo is working really hard to push the air through the restrictive cooler then it is going to create a lot of heat.

how did this car peform before the turbo change?

we've seen all kinds of whacky theories and debugging based around the hypergear turbochargers

its usually the owners trying to cram into 16 psi+ and get poor results or sluggish performance

i dont know whats going on, or why, and i dont really want to know, but we see lots of "my car has random issues" after hypergear hiflows go on

This is my graph from before the injectors, turbo and Z32 were installed (all went on at the same time):

Better shaped power curve, but 243rwhp @14psi is also a bit low if you compare to other results.

When I got the car back with these issues, I was quick to blame the turbo myself. But Stao has exchanged the turbo at his own expense, which would be a silly thing to do if he knew it wasn't going to perform.

[hypergear]

Most of cars are a mixed bag of all sort of aftermarket or factory parts and there is no way for a turbo builder or even the owner him self would know what’s capably of doing what. Obviously the finger points at the turbo if some thing goes wrong. that goes along with other people running other branded turbos that under performed seeking for advise.

There are few people didn't get expected ending result, I generally help or assist and we normally find none turbo related causing problem which some times is obvious but takes a long time.

In summary we’ve had scenarios of metal filled intake pipes, restrictive coolers, air leaks, drain caused oil filled bearing housings, as well as none function VCTs, and there are lot more to come. They were all pointed to the turbo before they were diagnosed.

I can only make sure the turbocharger it works by evaluating and testing, but can't guarantee about any thing else that works with it.

Regarding to pinning on high boost. When there is a restriction the shaft speed slows down, none rotating blades restrict exhaust flow trapping heated air inside combustion chamber causing pinning. I believe that would be the problem.

Few sets of data relating to ATR43G2 profiles:

Data 1: From our test car (ignore the timing fluctuation), This turbo was sent as exchange unit.

Data 2: from SSS_Gohan's R34

Data 3: From recent Sanjay's R33 on stock injectors and afm

Notice they all had about same boost to power behavior. I'm suspecting if the dyno used for Halando's car did read low as its under powered by roughly 19% through out all rev ranges.

[paulr33]

19% lower reading sounds a bit far fetched

even the guy driving the car said it doesnt feel as punchy?

[urtwhistle]

I have said it once, and I'll say it again. Hyperdrives dyno reads low. My RB25 R34 with my stock turbo and 15psi did 245hp. My Hypergear highflow pulled 300hp at 18 psi on my Rb25. my (very sick) RB30 with a GT3576 did 370.

You just can't compare dyno results from the east with hyperdrives. your best bet is to overlay your graph with mine as there both on the same dyno, same cars, same turbo.

CHRIS'S R34 DYNO3.pdf

I have already listed most of the symptoms.

We have put engine knocking down to superheated intake air. Fuel is not an issue, nor is timing. But at 295rwhp, this turbo should not be out of efficiency. The intercooler made sense, if the turbo is working really hard to push the air through the restrictive cooler then it is going to create a lot of heat.

This is my graph from before the injectors, turbo and Z32 were installed (all went on at the same time):

Better shaped power curve, but 243rwhp @14psi is also a bit low if you compare to other results.

When I got the car back with these issues, I was quick to blame the turbo myself. But Stao has exchanged the turbo at his own expense, which would be a silly thing to do if he knew it wasn't going to perform.

[Hanaldo]

I have said it once, and I'll say it again. Hyperdrives dyno reads low. My RB25 R34 with my stock turbo and 15psi did 245hp. My Hypergear highflow pulled 300hp at 18 psi on my Rb25. my (very sick) RB30 with a GT3576 did 370.

You just can't compare dyno results from the east with hyperdrives. your best bet is to overlay your graph with mine as there both on the same dyno, same cars, same turbo.

CHRIS'S R34 DYNO3.pdf

Not the same dyno, Hyperdrive don't have a dyno right now.

[MrStabby]

You've done pressure before and after cooler, how about pressure before compressor vs atmospheric?

If there is a restriction before the compressor, it will have to work harder (and therefore add more heat) than it would if it was drawing from atmospheric pressure.

Also, how about measuring temperature before and after the cooler to test your idea?