Car Was Idling A Bit Rich Then Just Died!

[Daboss]

Damn good news and horrible news.

First the good news, got the car to almost start today. It tried to start for a second then just died off.

Now for the horrible news, with the rail out noticed fuel was still getting on the plugs so cranked car with plugs out and heaps of fuel came from cylinder four. All the other holes had spark plugs in them. So decided to check the rest of plugs and what do you know they were covered in fuel also.For the hell of it I decided to check my oil dipstick and guess what, it was covered in fuel, so much that no oil was even present on the stick.

I just had the engine rebuilt and like I said it started and idled fine every time I started it. Didn't have a dump pipe installed so only idled the car and drove it probably a total of 2 miles. This starting problem just occurred over the past week. Oh I also noticed that the pressure in the fuel rail does not stay there as soon as it is primed and the pump stops the pressure falls off.

What do you guys think is the problem? Please, please, please for god sake do not say rings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 22, 2011 by Daboss

[tridentt150v]

FPR not responding to vacuum, so not turning 'off'??? And how could that much fuel get into the motor though? The tank is below the fuel rail so it shouldn't fill except with what is in the fuel rail and regulator etc and that is not that much - not enough to flood all your cylinders. It can't siphon from the tank unless its on a good hill slope.

And I can't see how you think having fuel everywhere is rings?

Why would you want to start and idle a rebuilt brand new engine - couldn't think of anything worse to bed the rings in!!

[Daboss]

FPR not responding to vacuum, so not turning 'off'??? And how could that much fuel get into the motor though? The tank is below the fuel rail so it shouldn't fill except with what is in the fuel rail and regulator etc and that is not that much - not enough to flood all your cylinders. It can't siphon from the tank unless its on a good hill slope.

And I can't see how you think having fuel everywhere is rings?

Why would you want to start and idle a rebuilt brand new engine - couldn't think of anything worse to bed the rings in!!

Wasn't really to bed the rings in just started it to make sure all was good every couple a days. Don't know if all the cylinders are flooded but number 4 for sure, I am thinking that the rings in four got scored and from the continuous cranking ,changing of injectors and running rich fuel seeped past those rings or maybe all and ended up in the oil sump. How else would fuel end up in the oil sump?

Also didn't say the fpr wasn't responding to vacuum, I said when you initially prime the system, turning the car to on without turning the key to ignition and the pump primes for that 5 second period, usually pressure stays in the fuel rail. I noticed that for my setup it does not. As soon as the pump has finished priming fuel pressure falls off.

Exactly what I want to know. How did so much fuel get into the oil and how do I solve this problem?

[DVS JEZ]

Take inj out and get tested.

Check the wiring at the injectors with a noid light and ensure they pulse when cranking.

If any of them stay on u have a wiring short or inj driver issue in the ecu.

[MBS206]

You've had an engine freshly rebuilt.

You've been starting it every few days while it's running rich.

Two things: Rich cars wash the bores, fuel ends up in the sump.

Freshly rebuilt motors don't have rings bedded in, aiding fuel in seeping through.

You may be better off for safety's sake, pulling the motor, and putting fresh bearings in it.

If fuel isn't seeping out of the injectors once you prime it, then you either have a faulty one way check valve or no one way check valve at all.

[Daboss]

You've had an engine freshly rebuilt.

You've been starting it every few days while it's running rich.

Two things: Rich cars wash the bores, fuel ends up in the sump.

Freshly rebuilt motors don't have rings bedded in, aiding fuel in seeping through.

You may be better off for safety's sake, pulling the motor, and putting fresh bearings in it.

If fuel isn't seeping out of the injectors once you prime it, then you either have a faulty one way check valve or no one way check valve at all.

No fuel is seeping out from what I can see now as I removed the fuel rail and primed the line. What do you mean by a faulty check valve, where is it located and how would it cause fuel to get in the sump?

[MBS206]

No fuel is seeping out from what I can see now as I removed the fuel rail and primed the line. What do you mean by a faulty check valve, where is it located and how would it cause fuel to get in the sump?

The check valve won't let it into the sump.

It's what makes the pressure remain in the fuel rail when you turn the pump off.

It's normally just on the end of the fuel pump. If it's not working there is nothing to worry about, so long as you prime the rail before trying to start the car each time.

The fuel in the sump would be from you starting it every single time and letting it idle rich.

Pull the motor, put new bearings in. While you're at it, I highly advise new rings in as well. Then get your dump made, and just give it to a tuner so they can bed the rings on the dyno.

[tridentt150v]

fuel seeped past those rings ended up in the oil sump. How else would fuel end up in the oil sump?

You have fuel running into a cylinder [as I understand it from cranking it all the time?] and if it doesn't burn then it will run down past the rings and into the sump. Rings aren't made to seal against fuel, if you've been idling it and its a new motor, I'd be worried. And with the leaking fuel washing the oil and bearings and anything else it gets to I'd be worried about that as well. Maybe a freshen up is needed, otherwise a long tow [or down hill] in gear with the spark plugs out and the fuel turned off using new oil????

[Daboss]

The fuel in the sump would be from you starting it every single time and letting it idle rich.

Pull the motor, put new bearings in. While you're at it, I highly advise new rings in as well. Then get your dump made, and just give it to a tuner so they can bed the rings on the dyno.

Damn just what I didn't want to hear, I just spent all kinds of money getting the engine rebuilt. Can I just change the oil and tow it in gear as trident suggested?

Rings aren't made to seal against fuel, if you've been idling it and its a new motor, I'd be worried. And with the leaking fuel washing the oil and bearings and anything else it gets to I'd be worried about that as well. Maybe a freshen up is needed, otherwise a long tow [or down hill] in gear with the spark plugs out and the fuel turned off using new oil????

Then check for compression and ride it like that until I can afford a new rebuild or until I get a sign that the bearings or rings have let go. I am worried as hell , but really can't afford a rebuild again and I really need my ride.

[Rolls]

once you fix it it is free to drive it and see if its f**ked, it isn't free to rebuild it so might as well see how you go

[MBS206]

The issue with if a bearing lets go, it's a full rebuild as metal will most likely be through the whole system (Head, turbos, blocks).

If you can catch it before they properly let go, you can avoid it all...

This is my personal thoughts on it after smashing a few motors...

[Daboss]

Ok here goes again!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Replaced oil in sump and the old oil was basically gas, thin and brown, no body to it at all. After I replaced oil poured less than a teaspoon into each cylinder.

Now all the gas should have been out cause I changed the oil plus if compression was a prob the oil should bring it up a bit, at least that's my assumption. Unplugged the injectors, took the plugs out and cranked the car to get any fuel that was in the system out.

Ok good all that done put everything back to how it suppose to be except I didn't plug injectors in, Cranked the car and it bubbled like it was gonna start, but instantly died. So am thinking well injectors aren't in so it should start when I plug them in, so I plugged them in and gave it a crank............................... It did a little bubble then....................Nothing. I went through all the test again and everything passed. Have spark, fuel, timing and compression, but the car just will not start. Tried to get it started maybe three more times with no luck checked the oil again and would you believe it gas is in there again just like last time.

I am stumped is there anyway for gas to get in the sump besides draining past the rings, I mean for the amount of gas that seems to be in there, there is noway that much got in there from the 3 or 4 times I tried to start it. The injectors can not be dumping that much fuel.

Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DVS JEZ]

Might be too much fuel which will = no start.

Change the inj values to a lower number and see if it starts. Write down what they are before changing the values

[tridentt150v]

^^ yep, I reckon your injectors are wide open? maybe a wiring issue?

[Rolls]

for you to get that much fuel in the oil after a single crank sounds like the injectors are jammed open, I would say electrical fault, no idea where or what though.

[Daboss]

Might be too much fuel which will = no start.

Change the inj values to a lower number and see if it starts. Write down what they are before changing the values

Yea did that have the values at like 30% for some high flowed stock injectors there value is 650cc and still nothing. Do you guys think that I burned the valves running it rich all that time and now that is my problem, valves burned so not seated properly therefore compression is off and car wont start and on top of that all that fuel may have messed up the rings as well.

Do burned valves stop a car from starting? Wouldn't it still start but just run horribly?

[Rolls]

rich = cooler so it wont burn valves

[Craved]

try a continuity test on the -ve line of the injectors to the earth/chassis - if that happens with the ECU off then you have a wiring issue

[DVS JEZ]

^^^ yep or even a simple noid light on the inj plugs to see if they are constanty on

[Daboss]

try a continuity test on the -ve line of the injectors to the earth/chassis - if that happens with the ECU off then you have a wiring issue

^^^ yep or even a simple noid light on the inj plugs to see if they are constanty on

Will do and keep you guys posted.