Dry Sumps And You.......

[Risking]

I have a lot of pm's about dry sump kits.

My setups are very close to now being available to people other than my immediate customers.

I'm going to be including

3/4/5 stage morosso pumps

Oil tank and mounts

Oil tank breather tank

Pro fabrication dry sump pan (seen in this thread)

A/C location pump bracket

ATi balancer (1000hp)

ATi drive mandrel

HTD belt and drive gears

Earls oil cooler

Earls oil block and remote mount

Rocker cover blacking plugs.

Adjustable oil pressure hob switch

Enough earls fittings to plumb the entire system and hose included as well.

No sway bar modification needed. No external head drain needed.

Tried and proven in several of my customers race GTR's

Finalizing details with earls regarding the plumbing at the moment so pricing will be out late this week early next week.

Price will be a shake up compared to what's currently available and it will include hose and fittings!!!

[Godzilla33]

What sort of coin will a package like this cost? I'm interested in a 4 stage setup, 2 sump scavenge, 1 back of head scavenge. not including fitting.

Cheers,

Matt

[Risking]

Don't scavenge from the rear of the cylinder head.

The entire idea of a dry sump is to create as much vacuum in the crankcase as possible

By scavenging at the cylinder head your drawing air back up from the crankcase through the head returns. You want all the negative pressure to be traveling towards the sump.

When you do a setup properly the rocker covers will be plugged up and the entire engine sealed. Anything over a 4 stage will need external vacuum regulation.

I'll send you a quote when I get a chance.

[Godzilla33]

ok, Thanks.

[fake400r]

Can you price the same system to me also. I already have petersen tank though.

Thanks

[neilo]

Hi to everyone on the SAU. I've found this thread very interesting on dry sump systems as i'm currently build my R34gtr race car in the uk. My question's are to Risking and anyone else with some good info.

How many litres per 1000rpm would you need from your scavange pumps to acheive 8" to 12" of vacuum?

Would you say it is better to run the returns individually back to the tank rather than to manifold all the scavange returns back in one hose?

What would you say is the ideal hose size? -12 feed and -16 returns

Thanks in advance

Cheers

Neil

[bigmikespec]

Having them plumb to a manifold and a single return is ok. Don't size the lines any smaller than the fitting size. If you know what your scavenge lines should flow from the manufacturer when they are flooded with oil let me know and I can check my flow velocity table and line sizing data.

[Nee-san]

+1 for price PM Brad when you get a spare second.

Cheers,

Mitch.

[neilo]

Mike, what type of valves do you use off your cam covers? and how many litres per 1000rpm does your pump produce?

Cheers

Neil

[bigmikespec]

I am not sure off my head will have to check and get back to you. When I spec'd it out with Bill Dailey he said I would have no problem running 12-15" of vacuum if the engine was sealed correctly.

I have a Peterson vacuum valve that I will probably mount off one of the outlets on the covers. I will plug the other hole.

[neilo]

Cheers Mike any info is appreciated. The 3 stage Titan pump i have can be geared to 17 litres per 1000rpm or 27 litre per 1000rpm it would be good to compare to what others are using.

I take it the peterson valve you are going to use is the filtered one which can be set to control the amount of vacuum you want? Have you or anyone else thought it necessary to run a perterson inline pop off valve from the cam covers back to the tank to control any possitive vacuum?

Cheers

Neil

[bigmikespec]

I will follow up on the pump flow rate.

Yes I am using that Peterson vacuum regulator... maybe it would be a good idea for the "pop off". I am not sure if the vacuum reg. would function as both. I will follow up with my contact at Peterson to see if it is necessary. If you are running vacuum though (which I assume we both are) I am not sure how important it would be to vent positive pressure... as you won't really have any during running conditions.

[Risking]

General rule is to run the pump at half crank speed obviously.

I think you mean 17L/1000 revolutions?

Typically most manufacturers pumps run between 10-20L. Depending on the stage size, gear design etc.

Something to remember though if your sump isn't able to provide adequate scavenging and your running the pump hard you will still end up with oil surge. All the oil will be in the sump not in the tank....

I see so many poorly designed and built sumps that allow oil to travel past open scavenging ports or rely on oil pooling around the scavenge ports instead or being feed toward it.

If you have too much oil volume you will flood the scavengers and have lower vacuum..

I run my vacuum control out of the original dip stick location. I tap an NPT thread into it and use a -6 fitting.

I have done my own bleed control system that draws air from one of the turbo charger intake pipes.

I've done some testing with vacuum gauges in the rocker covers and in the dip stick hole.

With the regulator in the rocker cover crank case vacuum was 3-5mm/hg higher than when it was venting the crankcase directly.

Is you set it up for say 15 in the covers that potentially puts you around 18 in the sump which is bordering dangerous for litte ends in an rb26.

I know pressure should be equal in all directions if the engine is sealed (pascals principal) but the engine is not 100% sealed and the vent location is critical when oil is also traveling along the same route as the vented in air.

[Risking]

I've also got a heap of alloy "half moon" rocker cover plugs machine up now.

The rubber ones can and do get sucked in by a decent sized pump on a sealed engine.

[neilo]

Thanks for the reply Risking, I'll take on board the advice with the vacuum regulator blead, as you said better to sensor the vacuum where it's at it's greatest. Do you also run your blead off the -6 fitting coming out of the dip stick hole? or off the cam covers? What size is the hole in your blead pipe -2 ?

My pump is a 3 stage Titan pump which has 2 scavenges in the sump and 1 pressure, i have a -12 feed and 1 X -16 return. In the circuit race series i'm building my car for we have to run a catch tank the same litres as the engine so i have to run a 3ltr catch tank, would you just vent the tank with a small filter on the top like all other dry sump catch tanks not vent to atmosphere like a convetional wet sump system?

My system hasn't run yet but as always trying to do it right, what i don't know is weather my current 17litre per 1000 revolutions is enough with 2 scavenges or weather it would be better going with the same 2 scavenges but have larger gears giving 27 litres per 1000 revolutions or just add another stage giving 3 scavenges?

Do you have any pictures of your vacuum blead and rocker plugs Risking? I use gts cam covers on my gtr though.

Thanks for any help.

Edited June 13, 2012 by neilo

[Risking]

The guys that wanted quotes send me an email

[email protected]

I'm not providing quotes via Sau any longer

Anyone that has received a quote from "pro

fabrication" on Sau recently for any fabrication work also send me an email as there is a chance you werent dealing with me.

[9krpm]

This thread needs some photos for those who dont get to see many dry sump setups or have never seen one.

Sorry the photos are not the greatest quality but they do show the dry sump.

Its a tight layout with a 5 stage system. These are of an RB26 in a GTR

Brad, does the Peterson require a scavenging manifold?

I have seen a lot of cars without one but my mechanic told me to ask Peterson to be sure. I called up the distributor in Aus and they were like...hm go and ask someone else. I am waiting for a reply from Peterson in the US.

[Risking]

No the Peterson R4 in that photo uses an internal manifold. There is port locations on top of each stage.

You can utilize any of those ports as a scavenge outlet.

[Risking]

Photos will be available in the next couple of days of a complete dry sump setup that I'll be installing and selling.

This will include everything required for a reliable 4 stage setup right down to the bracket for tank mounting etc.

[TwinTurboCelica]

I've also got a heap of alloy "half moon" rocker cover plugs machine up now.

The rubber ones can and do get sucked in by a decent sized pump on a sealed engine.

Brad, email sent. I need some of those half moons.