K Sport Brake Review

[Checkbuzz]

Hi Guys

I thought would share my horrible experience with K Sport brakes with you all so you don't make the same mistakes... I did alot of research on line and thought that the K Sports looked like good bang for buck... WRONG!!!

I guess all the research in world can't beat real life experience and I am very disappointed with K Sport.

At the end of the day you only get what you pay for and when it comes to K Sport that means a poor quality product and zero customer service/warranty support even when purchasing through a large retailer such as JustJap

One of the brake rotors supplied had a run out at least 0.1mm (Nissan and K sport both specify 0.05mm is the maximum allowable run out) so after spending hours removing studs and cleaning up the hub assembly asssuming the problem must be with my car I measured the hub which was with in tolerance <0.02mm, marked the high point on the disk rotor, turned it 180 degrees only to find that the high point was still the high point i.e. it was the disk that was out of tolerance!

OK everybody makes mistakes right (although I'd argue that brake component manufacturers do not really have this luxury) so I contact JustJap who were very helpful and organisde a courier pick up of the disk and it's return to K Sport.

K Sport call me and I give them a run down of the problem, they say they wil look at it and see what they can do...

A few days later the very same faulty disk rotor that I sent them is returned with; no paper work or any other repair information and the same run out problem!

I am out of pocket $2K, my car has been off the road for over a month and I am f**king pissed off!!!

Worse both JustJap and K Sport are telling me to just fit the disk rotor and "see how it goes" which is total BS; I have the Nissan work shop manual and alot of supporting documentation from K Sport that insist there will be DVT and vibration issues if the rotors are not within tolerance.

The other K Sport rotor (<0.04mm) and the new DBA4000 rears (<0.035) are all comfortably within this tolerence.

So K Sport brake products (and coilovers from what I hear) appear to be of generally poor quality and the customer/warranty service is non existent.

Be warned and do not make the same mistake I did!

[tricstar]

that doesn't sound like good support-custom service.

but have you fitted them and driven the car? to see if you do get any vibration?

I installed some 8 spot calipers & 356mm rotors from K-sport about a month ago, done a couple of events and they are good.. definately an upgrade from the standard Brembos.

[Checkbuzz]

There are a couple of problems with this course of action:

1. Nobody including K Sport will ever provide warranty service or replacement of used disk rotors especially when used for motor sport

2. DVT can take thousands of km's and months to rear it's ugly head; it is not going to be apparent straight away

3. K Sport include an entire brochure in their kit explaining in great detail how DVT and vibration can occur and just how critical it is to get the run out below 0.05mm (this is clearly a common problem with these brake kits or they wouldn't have included this info)

I really don't think that it is too much to ask that this rotor (like the other 3 that I fiitted at the same time) meet the manufacturers (and Nissans) strict tolerances

Google "disk run out" and check out the plethroa of information that backs up my stance and the issues that can occur down the track if run out is not within acceptable tolerance

that doesn't sound like good support-custom service.

but have you fitted them and driven the car? to see if you do get any vibration?

I installed some 8 spot calipers & 356mm rotors from K-sport about a month ago, done a couple of events and they are good.. definately an upgrade from the standard Brembos.

[R31Nismoid]

Reseller or not, you have the reciept from JustJap, they should be resolving this issue FOR you or replacing it if not possible.

From experience thus far - the Aussie KSport Distro guy is... not really that forthcoming or reasonable.

[PM-R33]

Damn that sucks to hear. Made in Taiwan though, so can't expect perfection.

Can you machine the rotor or something? Or am I confusing this with warped rotors?

[boiracer]

I've always had my doubts, due to K sports cheap prices, but never heard anything too bad about em. but this has sealed it for me anyways. every post like this kills their business in one way or another, so you'd think the reps would be trying their hardest to keep customers happy. (everything suffers from this these days tho)

get your money back if theyre not used??? and go buy something else.

can you get matching DBA ones for the front?

[R31Nismoid]

The DBA rotors are $1000+ just on thier own.

I know a few people with KSport so this perhaps is isolated, and to be fair - any manufacturing could be like that.

My Trial set for a GB is on the way. Gone with the D2/G4 kit in the end. Will have em on after Motive Drag Battle and then organise the GB once im happy they are a good option.

[Super_Dude]

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tires-wheels-brakes-suspension-sponsored-tire-rack/530390-d2-380mm-brake-kit-problem-hard-shacking.html

Any potential ksport/d2 buyer should read this thread.

[PM-R33]

Very interesting.

[eightsixboy]

I'm pretty sure there was a guy on here who had problems with one of the 'cheaper' upgrade kits. He had problems with the caliper mounting bracket expanding and contracting from the heat and snapped one of the bolts, ended up f**king his wheel in he process.

I'm surprised they didnt just give you a replacement disc, prob not justjaps fault as they are normally very good with customer service, I would definently be calling them back and demanding either a full refund or a new disc, your well within your right to do so, I to would be highly pissed of if this happened to me.

[Checkbuzz]

Thanks for the comments guys

There do appear to be alot of happy K Sport customers out there and I wouldn't have purchased this kit if I had found out otherwise in my (rather extensive) research.

BTW I found plenty of people suffering issues with Brembo, AP and Alcon brakes as well - so let's be clear here - no product is perfect!

The problems that the Evo guy has in the link above are precisely the sort of issues you get when you have too much run out; he is suffering from major DVT (among other things!)

As for the caliper flex I would like to see a comparison with other manufacturers calipers - on its own I'm not sure what this measurement means.

The calipers shown are also do not appear to be the same design that I have recieved from K Sport which look better engineered (e.g. 8 bolts holding them together).

Check out the pic in this link (http://www.ksportusa...kits/splash.jpg), the pix from page 1 of this thread (http://www.skylinesa...initive-review/) and then the vids in the Evo link - they do not appear to be the same caliper design, nor do the D2 disks look like the same design as you can also see.

Taking this info into account the big question still unanswered is - are these brake kits (D2, G4, K sport) all the same kit from the same factory?

They are certainly not identical in appearance/design so it seems very doubtful that they are exactly the same product from the same factory.

Problem Update:

JustJap were fairly helpful but when their "mechanic" told me I was complaining about nothing and to just put them on the car, drive it and see what happens (insisting they will warranty any issues down the track - yeh right!) I knew it was time to take matters into my own hands.

BTW JustJap were clear that they didn't think they had any resposibility here and were just doing me a favour by helping me out with returns to the vendor etc. This was an out of the box faulty part so I find this attitude from them a little bit rich.

Anyway I have contacted K Sport Australia (A and B Motorsport, Sydney) directly and spoken to Frank (the manager) he said they sent my disk back to me the first time because they checked it and it was "balanced"!? I told him (as I told his staff when they called me about the problem) that I was concerned about the excessive run out not the balance and that they are not the same thing i.e. you could concievably have a disk with excessive run out that is still perfectly balanced.

They have organised a courier who has just picked up the disk for the second time...

If this doesn't work I have half a mind to personally deliver the disk - airmail through their shop front window!

Edited May 31, 2011 by Checkbuzz

[R31Nismoid]

I can tell you 100% the D2/KSport come outta the same factory. They are separate companies, but owned by two brothers with the same receptionist

Import Monster have been kind enough to offer thier facility to perform as much testing as i wish for the greater good of SAU.

So I will try my best to attempt as many of the tests as this EVO owner.

Both as the kit goes on, and afer 1,000km of hard use to give everyone another point of view. I also have access to a car with Alcons, so will give some comparo tests there are well. Will probably take a couple days, but i think its worth it.

TL;DR: I'll do a full review

[75coupe]

excellent work in setting up testing of these brake setups, cant wait to read your review...

[Deano 1]

yea im keen to see this review, nice work Ash!!

[ssxRicho]

Bit sad, as I love my ksports. 3/4 through the first pad set (blue stuff) on the front no problems and 7-8 track days down.

IMO there is no way that I would even consider measuring mine...the calipers, pads and rotors where cheaper than DBA5000's and pads.

They are what they are.

[eightsixboy]

I can tell you 100% the D2/KSport come outta the same factory. They are separate companies, but owned by two brothers with the same receptionist

Import Monster have been kind enough to offer thier facility to perform as much testing as i wish for the greater good of SAU.

So I will try my best to attempt as many of the tests as this EVO owner.

Both as the kit goes on, and afer 1,000km of hard use to give everyone another point of view. I also have access to a car with Alcons, so will give some comparo tests there are well. Will probably take a couple days, but i think its worth it.

TL;DR: I'll do a full review

Thats awesome, if this issue get resolved and some good reviews come through on here I might be tempted to buy later on.

Dont wanna drag away from the original topic but where are you meant to get replacement rotors from? Didnt see them listed seperately on justjap.

[Roy]

So many things wrong with those test videos...I wouldnt be too concerned by what I see in the vids

[R31Nismoid]

Care to elaborate ole son?

Will help to discern what is useful, and what is not.

[Roy]

I was waiting for a lift home....my thoughts, and again they are only an opinion and not in defence of the caliper/setup....but , firstly. Hats off to the guy for conducting all the testing, the time, equipment and setup means makes him pretty cool in my eyes to try and understand what is going on...

That said, in order to really know if those tests mean anything I would want the following clarifications:

... the pedal travel should be longer because of the increased fluid than goes in the bigger than stock caliper and tires lock is due to the excessive 380mm size ! – So first lesson : for the street using normal street tires you do not need 380mm discs to stop an EVO

Many of the G4/D2 calipers, whilst having more pistons actually have less hydraulic volume. So would be nice to see a measurement and calculation to confirm whether the hydraulic volume has increased or been reduced. The strange pedal feel with poor bite could be badly bled brakes, crap std pads, poorly bedded in brakes, glazed pads or any combination that explains things. A simple understanding of the hydraulic volume allows you to understand how/if the pedal feel shoudl be changing due to a change in hydraulic volume.

Agree with the bit in italics

The shudder, and locking brakes thing means the first thing I would be checking is whether there are uneven deposits/heat tint on the rotor or whether the pads are glazed. He hasnt mentioned he has checked it so its something I would want to rule out. For me this rings true because I had the same thing happen to me recently when with a decent sized brake upgrade its very hard to bed them all properly on the street. The breaking on gentle driving thing...put them on, and get on them and burn off all the fluff and get some heat into them. Dont go glowing red racing, but they need 10-12 stops to about 15km/h from 140km/h...with a 380mm setup and decent pads, maybe even that would not get enough heat into them and maybe need stops from 160km/h...cant do that on the street

Also, look at the 3rd vid before hitting play. There is plenty of evidence that the caliper is too close to the inner face of the wheel. Any small rock etc is ovbviously getting between the caliper and wheel and damaging the caliper. So whether its an issue in this case, never run a brake setup with insufficient wheel clearance as you can damage wheels, brakes and can even end up with catastrophic brake failure.

One last thing is the pics of the install, the install looks pretty grubby. If you push the pistons back the the pads shoudl be free to slide on the guides of the caliper, They should not bind due to pad not being a good fit or brake dust, rubber, grime build up. Alwas polish the stainless guide so that the pads backing plate will freely slide on the caliper. Especially important on these sorts of setups that use long pads, you dont want one edge to bind and the pad not evenly press on the rotor

Caliper expanding under pressure

Doesnt look encouraging, but others have said what were the std Mistu Brembos measurement? Are the wheel nuts torqued up as tight as they would be with the wheel in place? More importantly is the whole caliper deflecting or is it bellowing? By deflecting I mean is the rotor central to the caliper and pads squeezing the rotor rather then pushing the rotor to the centre. Is the caliper moving up near the bleed nipple? If you are getting similar results then it could be the mount is crap or the mounts need some machine washers installed to centre the rotor in the middle of the caliper. (I assume all the bolts are torqued correctly, and its not unusual to have creeking when doing this sort of test, but i would be trying to correlate teh creeking intensity with the measurement and what I am seeing)

Either way i do suspect they bellow a hell of a lot, thats a gut feel basically from looking at how open the bridge is and general construction. So this could explain a spongey pedal under hard stops. But a caliper that bellows excessivley isnt the end of the world, it may hurt pedal feel a tad, but if you are running a nice pad and the setup doesnt over heat then I think thats more important to getting confidence in the pedal stop after stop

Dynamometric wrench

I dont really know what result to expect here. But the immediate questions I have is again, what measurement do you get with the std brakes? The thing is AWD so the resistance from diffs etc means you would get the same result from the front as you would with the rears. At least repeat the test he did without pads and if there is a difference then you know its because pads are running on the rotor. As is I think its a bit inconclusive...I know in my car its hard to turn the hub/rotor even when the caliper isnt on the car....so my 205,000kms wheel bearings are simply shagged. If i installed this kit and noticed they were hard to turn with fresh pads in...its easy to understand why one would think its the brakes and not the root problem of shagged bearing

Rotor run out

So they have run out. I wouldnt measure it where he did on a slotted rotor. The slots will always mean that material is often at the outer edge, cobined with the outer edge of the rotor being up in and around the gunk and deposits in the caliper. I would measure it in the middle of the rotor face where the pad is constantly sweeping the rotor face and wear should be even.

A few other comments is that its a 380mm rotor so it will only take a little bit of garbage/corrosion on the hub behind the rotor and you will get some run out. Machine the rotor, re-install it and see what result you get. If its about the same then you know its in the wheel bearing, hub face etc, not the rotors fault. If the run out is fixed with a machine but comes back with a few heat cycles then you know the rotor's mettalurgy is simply rubbish.

Radial difference in diam

Thats nothing unusual. They are cast pieces of steel and are machined radially to balance them up ready to go on the car. No rotor is free of it, I can show you $850 a corner 376x36mm vane race rotors that are machined on the outer edge to balance them up

So...baseed on the vast majority of people gettign reasonable results with these kits, I suspect he could have a problem with the pads being glazed and bedding the brakes properly.

I am a bit of a brand whore and like trying different brakes....so have not tried one of these kits. I did have a KTS setup which are Endless 6 pot knock offs and the quality of the caliper was great, though they were never installed so only going on visual inspection. My only criticism of the KTS setup was the quality of the mount and brake lines...which seem pretty universal across these kits.

Will be interesting to play around with your stuff Ash

[R31Nismoid]

Awesome - will read it in detail at a later date mate.

If you want, you can come and lend a hand

I'm going to back to back it with at LEAST the stock R33 GTR brakes - Import Monster have a car with Alcons on it also, bit of 3-way hopefully