E85/98 Flex-Fuel Mission Complete! Thanks To Chequered Tuning!

[SS8_Gohan]

probably any decent tuner could tune a Link - or just find someone who tunes the rebadged ones (Vipec)

[VB-]

Hey Daniel, Ben here, i'm the big bloke that was at chequered when you first brought down the drum of powerplus stuff. seen the screen name a hundred times, interesting who you come across down there lol

glad to see it all came together mate, you've got a great all rounder there that should be perfectly liveable on the street

[DR 32R]

Very impressive work! Well done

[STATUS]

Wait to you see this car guys, it is possibly the sexiest R34 i have EVER seen....

Heaps of power, super torquey and happy to trundle around @ 5kph in bumper to bumper traffic.... a true divers car and credit to Daniel and his vision for the car.

A daily drivable supercar eater.

[STATUS]

Nice results dan.

So you made 387kw on the 56% ethanol?

Did trent or racepace comment on how much the single nismo should make on e85?

Im doing a e85 tune next week and have 2 nismo's intank just hoping iv got enough fuel supply...

should be laughing, we made 400-420 on a single tomei pump which is the same as the nismo. we ran out of injector before pump.

[Beer Baron]

nice one mate. very good idea and execution. don't think it's the first GTR though. JEM have one running the same zeitronix sensor (they are a dealer of that stuff) and set up in a 32 which is putting out 500odd kw with the flex fuel capability too.

still certainly 'one of the first' for sure. I want to see how it drives. thinking I will do the same with my bunky old 32. it's currently got sard 1000s, nismo intank, motec ecu, 2530s etc. Seems like I'd only need the zeitronix sensor and some plumbing done. hell I may even do a road trip to melb and get trent to tune it. what do you say trent? you keen to have a stab at an old banger with a jun 2.7 in it?

[Harey]

Fantastic job Dan and Trent!!!

I can attest to the quality and sheer beauty of Dan's R34, absolutely amazing.

Could be a silly question but is this possible with a nistune?

[STATUS]

Fantastic job Dan and Trent!!!

I can attest to the quality and sheer beauty of Dan's R34, absolutely amazing.

Could be a silly question but is this possible with a nistune?

Unfortunately not, same with pfc. For those two ecu's i recommend getting the software so you can load 98 or e85 maps in. I think the FC-hako interface cable is bug free now and only $175. The Nistune software and license is also reasonable.

To use this system the ecu needs a digital input to read the frequency, we run a pullup resistor from the signal input to 5v to make it all work.... so any haltech, link, vipec, etc i think i can get it working with emanage but it will require the zetronix ethanol content meter aswell.

[Birds]

This is indeed great to see. Well done boys.

There has been at least one other such a project here in Oz but I believe that was with an Evo 9 and the ViPec V88 version of those Link Computers .

Its actually an exciting time in this area because many would like to have the opportunity to remove the fuel blend hassles and have the hardward handle it all like OE flex fueled cars do .

I hope this is something all the aftermarket management mobs will cater for and that some data gets published on how the compensations are made for the varying ethanol content .

When I spoke to Scott at Insight about this he said its not a linea thing where you can start with E85 and do an E0 tune and expect to have linea compensations . I didn't like to ask if you have to say tune for every 10% increase in ethanol content and get the computer to extrapolate from there as its not my intellectual propety - read development dollar - to know .

I have to give 10 points to people taking on these projects because its something that will benefit many/most eventually so its a win for all .

For my part thanks , cheers A .

Agreed, in the end it's a compromise (a very good one at that), so it's never going to be as perfect as tuning for that exact mix...but when you're putting out that much power in a street car, I don't think the few extra kw or spot on timing are going to matter much. I would certainly put up with it for the non-hassle of being able to fill up wherever and let the computer do its thing.

any good link tuners in sydney??

im beginning to think e85 and its availability issues will be the end of the good old pfc

Nar! Nothing stopping you from monitoring the E content yourself and adjusting the mix with jerry cans of E85 and 98. It's just a pain in the ass

[STATUS]

This is indeed great to see. Well done boys.

Agreed, in the end it's a compromise (a very good one at that), so it's never going to be as perfect as tuning for that exact mix...but when you're putting out that much power in a street car, I don't think the few extra kw or spot on timing are going to matter much. I would certainly put up with it for the non-hassle of being able to fill up wherever and let the computer do its thing.

Nar! Nothing stopping you from monitoring the E content yourself and adjusting the mix with jerry cans of E85 and 98. It's just a pain in the ass

NO compromise at all really the afr and timing when fully setup is optimised for very fine adjustments so it will make peak safe power at any ethanol mix with optimal afr's.

[some_cs_student]

Great work!

I was wondering why the ecu could not adjust the mixture based on the percentage ethanol, its not straightforward but its possible

I'd like to do this eventually...one day

[Ryan1200]

should be laughing, we made 400-420 on a single tomei pump which is the same as the nismo. we ran out of injector before pump.

Trent whats your take on the standard GTR pump looking at the following test the stock pump does pretty good..

http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm#j8

Stock have you found a limit at all? maybe we've been getting gibed on the tomei/nismo pumps!

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

*throws PFC in bin*

[SS8_Gohan]

dooooo eeeeeet Ham! (after selling the PFC first, then throw it in the bin , then get a G4.... you know, like a G6, like a G6.... but 4)

Don't quote me on this, but i think Racepace may have even used a standard GTR pump on tangomatt's 2.8 Vcam build, which ended up around 420rwkw on 98 - it could be a nismo, but certainly only a single drop in - i know it's not E85, but if they managed that on a standard pump, then a tomei/nismo being bigger again surely should be good for most of us wanting to go E85 on upgraded turbo Rb26's

We'll know soon how we go with a single intank nismo on a true blue E85 (Powerplus) but as Trent has already said, he's had a Tomei up around the 400-420rwkw mark on a uprgaded turbo 26 without an issue, you're going to have no issues with 2 of them!

[linkems]

Hi Trent

Is it still possible to setup the car to run closed loop wbO2 with a tune that incorporates the ethanol content sensor? or is this a function you need to sacrifice, considering stoich afr for e85 and e0 will be different.

Cheers

Pat

Edited June 6, 2011 by linkems

[JonnoHR31]

closed loop will still work as normal, widebands work off lambda so it wont matter how much of what fuels in there

[Birds]

NO compromise at all really the afr and timing when fully setup is optimised for very fine adjustments so it will make peak safe power at any ethanol mix with optimal afr's.

So you're saying it will adjust accordingly for the mix with maps that will be as good as if you were to tune manually for that mix? How does it overcome the non-linear nature of varying ethanol contents? Sorry for the intrusive question/s, just want to take in all the advantages and disadvantages of an E-flex setup.

I suppose you are never guaranteed a perfect mix of ethanol at a service station, so in a way, filling up with a static tune (ala prior to Dan's setup) is going to be a big tuning compromise anyway...unless you are buying your E85 by the drum from a specialist supplier who can guarantee the blend.

[Harey]

This is not an answer to your question birds but more just thinking out loud:

98 tune: min fuel, min timing

E70 tune: ~20 more fuel, X-2 degrees more timing

E85 tune: ~25% more fuel, X degrees more timing

So wouldnt the ecu draw a linear line between the two endpoints for each % of ethanol content?

[Lithium]

First off, I love it - nice work

98 tune: min fuel' date=' min timing

E70 tune: ~20 more fuel, X-2 degrees more timing

E85 tune: ~25% more fuel, X degrees more timing

So wouldnt the ecu draw a linear line between the two endpoints for each % of ethanol content? [/quote']

Imo not that simple, and definitely not the kind of rule I'd want to apply to an entire ignition/fuel map.

I'd not expect the timing adjustments to be linear for eth content (for an optimal tune), especially as a car may be octane limited on straight 98 but not so much at eth %age increases. At lighter loads/rpm mbt may not even change.

I am sure there are a few ways of going about it and I'm not sure how one would reliably state it to be an optimal tune for each situation without having maps for even just every 10% ethanol content. Straight off the top of my head the first hair brained solution I can think of would be to something along the lines of having a 4d table (load versus eth content) for fuel and ignition and a 5d table (rpm versus eth content) - set up the base tune on straight 98 and start intensifying the eth content and enjoy the extra timing at higher load and rpm you can do with eth.

... or have link actually released a patch for creating an eth content adjustment map?

[STATUS]

So you're saying it will adjust accordingly for the mix with maps that will be as good as if you were to tune manually for that mix? How does it overcome the non-linear nature of varying ethanol contents? Sorry for the intrusive question/s, just want to take in all the advantages and disadvantages of an E-flex setup.

I suppose you are never guaranteed a perfect mix of ethanol at a service station, so in a way, filling up with a static tune (ala prior to Dan's setup) is going to be a big tuning compromise anyway...unless you are buying your E85 by the drum from a specialist supplier who can guarantee the blend.

yes.

We dont need to have linear adjustments or in one plane (multiple planes) either (remember there are corrections for load too as well as fine % ethanol adjustments), but like any ecu the scale is where the magic is not just the number in the table.

Once we do the final tune on Daniels i would be happy for it to lap on any mix of fuel and ethanol and be optimised for that mix.